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When Did Humans Arrive in the Americas...

Old 09-29-21, 05:26 AM
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When Did Humans Arrive in the Americas...

...The accepted answer was about 11-12 thousand years ago, the Clovis people came here via the land bridge at the end of the last Ice Age. However, it now seems we were already here during the last Glacial Maximum.

I wonder how this will affect the theory that we humans caused the mass extinction during the Younger Dryas. To me it seems like more proof humans did NOT cause that massive extinction event.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/h...rived-americas

Stunning footprints push back human arrival in Americas by thousands of years

The tracks at New Mexico’s White Sands National Park are upending past assumptions on when humans first ventured into North and South America.


But after decades of the field centering around a Clovis culture of only 13,000 years ago, change may finally be on the horizon. "I think we will not speak in terms of pre-Clovis possibilities," Ardelean says. "We will speak in terms of pre-White Sands and post-White Sands."
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Old 09-29-21, 05:29 AM
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Around 1985
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Old 09-29-21, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Around 1985
ah....with the rise in popularity of new wave.

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Old 09-29-21, 10:04 AM
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The Meadowcroft Rock shelter site in Western Pennsylvania has indications of occupation dating back 19,000 years. I took an archeology class from Dr. James Advasio, who is the leading expert on the site, when I was a student at the University of Pittsburgh back in the 1970's. Fascinating guy.

Meadowcroft Rock Shelter This is a very cool place to visit.
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Old 09-29-21, 03:15 PM
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Old 09-29-21, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Around 1985
July 3rd. It was a wednesday.

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Old 09-29-21, 05:26 PM
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There have been numerous finds that researchers date to 15 to 20,000 years ago. Doesn't seem like any have been widely accepted enough that any consensus has been reached. I would think there's enough out there to conclude that the Bering Strait crossings were likely not the first humans on this continent.
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Old 09-29-21, 06:54 PM
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Even more interesting the the genome data found in some of the remains of indigenous tribes living and otherwise. Especially the old tribes of Chile that are older and do not match the land bridge tribes...

Old Larson Cartoon: Cave man in lion cloth standing on a trash pile with his buddy examining bones from the weeks meals; He says, "This one's gotta be at least three days old."

Neolithic Paleontologist...
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Old 09-29-21, 07:41 PM
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Donald John Trump, the world's only person to play Donald Trump in Home Alone 2: Lost in New York, was born in 1946 so probably at least since 1946.
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Old 09-29-21, 09:16 PM
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Some old European maps of the world show an Antarctic land mass, before Europeans sailed that far. Some long forgotten civilization may have sailed across oceans. They may have used some resource that doesn't exist anymore. Evidence of ancient civilizations may be under seawater and many layers of sediment, with a slim chance of discovery in the next ice age.
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Old 09-29-21, 10:32 PM
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Folsom man was hunting bison, rolling numbers and skiing some sweet runs during the late Pleistocene.

While exploring northern New Mexico, I went by the museum there. But it was closed.

There's a ton of folks that think, er "believe," the world is only 10,000 years old. Not sure how they reconcile, you know, facts.
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Old 09-30-21, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
Folsom man was hunting bison, rolling numbers and skiing some sweet runs during the late Pleistocene.
Did he devolve into Florida Man?
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Old 09-30-21, 06:59 AM
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Humans have been in America since the beginning of time. To put a date on it- Jan 1 1970
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Old 09-30-21, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
Folsom man was hunting bison, rolling numbers and skiing some sweet runs during the late Pleistocene.

While exploring northern New Mexico, I went by the museum there. But it was closed.

There's a ton of folks that think, er "believe," the world is only 10,000 years old. Not sure how they reconcile, you know, facts.
Faith.
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Old 09-30-21, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by StupidlyBrave View Post
Humans have been in America since the beginning of time. To put a date on it- Jan 1 1970
I'm not nerdy enough. Had to google that date to get it.

I existed before time by some seconds....
-136789126
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Old 09-30-21, 08:13 AM
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I saw this story a week ago and I've been thinking what it must have been like for them. Were they fat and happy, or lonely and desperate? What did they believe, what did they talk about?

Over here, there's basic evidence like this of human presence but nothing major. The other side of the planet was mostly settled, Australia was settled, H. Neandethal and H. Erectus were extinct, humans were pretty common. It was a glacial growth period, which allowed for emigration. In a few thousand years there would be the last glacial maximum and the Bering land bridge. Humans were still almost entirely nomadic. The earliest permanent settlement ever found is from around this time, a hunting camp in the Czech Republic. But that may be a matter of what's available to the archaeologists. There was a massive sea level rise when the glaciers melted and anything coastal from this time is now under 300 feet of water. That same rise will cut off settlement of the Americas and strand anyone already over here.

Wild animals are pretty much the ones you know today. In Eurasia a lot of the large herbivores were going extinct from hunting but over here they were still roaming, and there were lions and wolves bigger than anything in Eurasia. Dogs may have been domesticated around this time, according to genetic analysis.

Language existed, art existed, ovens, saws, lots of little technology you might find familiar. But no pottery yet. The earliest ceramic figurines date from around this time and pots, the next revolution that will allow for major trade and agriculture, are still thousands of years off. Farming is ten thousand years off. The Bronze Age, Egypt and Mesopotamian civilization, writing, are still fifteen thousand years in the future.
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Old 09-30-21, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by skijor View Post
I'm not nerdy enough. Had to google that date to get it.

I existed before time by some seconds....
-136789126
Nice. I also remember when dirt was a new thing.
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Old 09-30-21, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
I saw this story a week ago and I've been thinking what it must have been like for them. Were they fat and happy, or lonely and desperate? What did they believe, what did they talk about?.
I like to think about when humans became self-conscious or self-aware, whatever you want to call it. How that inner voice was born.
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Old 09-30-21, 03:27 PM
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I guess it depends on when humans started calling it "the Americas". I heard of some idiot sailor who thought he had arrived in India when hitting the east coast, and then decided to call the inhabitants Indians.

It was this close >.< to being called the United States of India.

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Old 09-30-21, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Altair 4 View Post
I like to think about when humans became self-conscious or self-aware, whatever you want to call it. How that inner voice was born.
Hard to know. Tools made from broken stone start 3 million years ago, h. sapiens starts about 300,000 years ago, industry seems to start about 100,000 years ago and there's a flourishing in art that we can relate to starting about 50,000 years ago. Imagine all those generations who had not yet invented language, locked in their heads.
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Old 09-30-21, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Altair 4 View Post
I like to think about when [apes] became self-conscious... How that inner voice was born.
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Old 10-01-21, 12:07 AM
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Humans arrived in the Americas? When? Mostly what I see are programmable meat puppets with the worst software glitches.

I'm on my third viewing of Battlestar Galactica, a show I could barely tolerate during the first run as incomprehensible gibberish.

My fault for trying to empathize with the humans.

Now I finally understand it. And I sympathize with the Cylons.
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Old 10-01-21, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Altair 4 View Post
I like to think about when humans became self-conscious or self-aware, whatever you want to call it. How that inner voice was born.
Daniel C. Dennett wrote a wonderfully detailed and engaging book about that very subject, From Bacteria To Bach and Back: The Evolution Of Minds
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Old 10-01-21, 09:59 AM
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When contemplating pre history it's always useful to throw in "no one knows for sure" lol.

I think when we are dealing with these types of estimates they could simply be off by thousands of years. I find it tremendously interesting tho. How we became "US" . Most of the early human habitation and items are simply lost in time ....never to be discovered. The "first" thing found could be the last one made and so forth.
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Old 10-01-21, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
...The accepted answer was about 11-12 thousand years ago, the Clovis people came here via the land bridge at the end of the last Ice Age. However, it now seems we were already here during the last Glacial Maximum.

I wonder how this will affect the theory that we humans caused the mass extinction during the Younger Dryas. To me it seems like more proof humans did NOT cause that massive extinction event.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/h...rived-americas
Pure speculation here. Suppose those first immigrants, the White Sands people, were a small tribe battling for existence in a place with plenty but also big predators. Suppose they had rudimentary tools but none big enough to threaten those animals and that they did not have either the numbers or will and teamwork enough to do a kill of a very large animal. (They might have even respected/worshipped them.) Such a people might live for years even centuries or millenia and never gain the numbers or will to threaten the large animals.

Now say in Asia/Europe, things were different. Far more people. They were displacing and killing the large animals. Agriculture had started because animal food sources were waning combined with a growing need for food. Young men and the women they could bring with them ventured from home, crossing a land bridge to a new (to them) world looking for land and opportunity. Upon finding humans already in the new land I'd guess they'd kill or conquer some and cohabitate with others. (10 thousand years later, the English killed/conquered the inhabitants, the French cohabitated with them and the Spanish did both.)

The native Americans today had genes that come from at least two very different sources. Clovis and White Sands? There is also speculation that there may be a Pacific Islander bloodline in South America: that sea traffic may have once been common. This would be a lot harder to document as relics often do not survive a tropical environment; unlike the far dryer and colder North America. (The voyage spelled out in the book Kon Tiki demonstrated how this might have worked. We know now a lot of what the author speculated was wrong but he demonstrated cearly that such trans-Pacific intercourse long ago was entirely possible (and if they were true mariners, not bumbling hacks maybe even easy!)
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