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Overtime WorK Policy... is this fair...?

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Overtime WorK Policy... is this fair...?

Old 09-18-05, 02:40 AM
  #1  
my58vw
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Overtime WorK Policy... is this fair...?

I live in California and work a job that runs 24:7, i.e. someone is always on. I work the swing shift (moving to graveyard), and someone else comes in for 12 - 8 am. Well the graveyard person quit this week and is no showing again tonight... so I am stuck on another 16 hour shift.

Our so called work contract with the school says...

Shifts are calculated from midnight to midnight. If an employee works over midnight the second half of the shift counts as a seperate shift and the over 8 hour rule for overtime does not apply.

That is Bu!!s%^t IMO, I am working 16 hours I should get 8 hours of overtime. Does anyone know what the legality on this is or have an opinion?

BTW I have to come back at 4 pm... to midnight today... that would be considered 8 hours of overtime.
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Old 09-18-05, 03:20 AM
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How many hours a week are you working? I think Bush changed the federal overtime rules a few years ago.
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Old 09-18-05, 05:05 AM
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40 hours
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Old 09-18-05, 05:12 AM
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It used to be that over 40 hours a week was overtime, but for some workers this changed with Bush's changes in labor law. Here are some links to check out:

http://money.cnn.com/2004/04/20/news/economy/overtime/
http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/labor_laws_2/
http://edworkforce.house.gov/democra...s/rel9904.html
http://www.laborresearch.org/story.php?id=294
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Old 09-18-05, 05:20 AM
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It looks like they define the day via the workday, not a continous shift.

For example, employer may define the workday midnight to midnight, schedule you to work say 4 to midnight, then midnight to 8 am, 16 straight hours and it not get overtime. That really stinks, I used to think the law said any hours worked over 8 straight in a pay week , not a payday.
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Old 09-18-05, 05:49 AM
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If they were to say "8 hours straight" then they could loophole themselves into saying "You took lunch! That was 4 hours, 1 hour break, then another 4, that's not 8 straight!"

You're original post confused me, could you please post your shifts?

Were you saying:
Monday Night 4pm - 8am Tuesday Morning
Tuesday night 4pm - 8am Wednesday Morning, etc.

?

If so, then one Teusday: 12midnight - 8am = 8 hours + 4pm - 12midnight = 8 hours
Total, 16 hours in one work day.

Granted this will screw you over for Mondays (4-12 only) and Saturdays (12-8 only) but it's better than nothing.

vw, Send me a PM please
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Old 09-18-05, 05:58 AM
  #7  
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Here is the California Labor code:

510. (a) Eight hours of labor constitutes a day's work. Any work
in excess of eight hours in one workday and any work in excess of 40
hours in any one workweek and the first eight hours worked on the
seventh day of work in any one workweek shall be compensated at the
rate of no less than one and one-half times the regular rate of pay
for an employee. Any work in excess of 12 hours in one day shall be
compensated at the rate of no less than twice the regular rate of pay
for an employee. In addition, any work in excess of eight hours on
any seventh day of a workweek shall be compensated at the rate of no
less than twice the regular rate of pay of an employee. Nothing in
this section requires an employer to combine more than one rate of
overtime compensation in order to calculate the amount to be paid to
an employee for any hour of overtime work. The requirements of this
section do not apply to the payment of overtime compensation to an
employee working pursuant to any of the following:
(1) An alternative workweek schedule adopted pursuant to Section
511.
(2) An alternative workweek schedule adopted pursuant to a
collective bargaining agreement pursuant to Section 514.
(3) An alternative workweek schedule to which this chapter is
inapplicable pursuant to Section 554.
(b) Time spent commuting to and from the first place at which an
employee's presence is required by the employer shall not be
considered to be a part of a day's work, when the employee commutes
in a vehicle that is owned, leased, or subsidized by the employer and
is used for the purpose of ridesharing, as defined in Section 522 of
the Vehicle Code.
(c) This section does not affect, change, or limit an employer's
liability under the workers' compensation law.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...0&file=500-558

Cal Labor Board

http://www.dir.ca.gov/
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Old 09-18-05, 06:05 AM
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Looks like you've got your answer:
510. (a) Eight hours of labor constitutes a day's work. Any work
in excess of eight hours in one workday and any work in excess of 40
hours in any one workweek
(still PM me though, please)

Last edited by InfamousG; 09-18-05 at 06:10 AM.
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Old 09-18-05, 06:43 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by InfamousG
Looks like you've got your answer:


(still PM me though, please)
The question is what constitutes a work day?

Is it the time you are on the clock or a physical 24 hour period of a day that resets after 24 hours.


My usual schedule

Monday - Midnight to 8 am
Tuesday - Midnight to 8 am
Wednesday - Midnight to 8 am
Thursday - OFF
Friday - OFF
Saturday - Midnight to 8 am
Sunday - Midnight to 8 am


Now we have a policy that if someone nnno shows we are required to work 8 hours in addition to our normal shift following normal labor law policies... therefore lets say I was scheduled for the following shift...

Monday - midnight to 8 am

and the 8am to 4 pm person no shows I get stuck working midnight to 4 pm, 16 hours straight and get 8 hours of overtime. Now lets say I am working the following shift

Tuesday - 4 pm to midnight

and the graveyard person (midnight to 8 am shift) no shows I have to work

4 pm to 8 am the next morning, I get paid for 16 straight hours but no overtime.

This is the current situation - I was scheduled tonight 4 pm to midnight, the graveyard person quit, no notice and I am stuck here working the midnight to 8 am shift, no overtime. I have to come in this afternoon for my normal swing or 4 pm to midnight Sunday shift, I end up working 24 hours in a 32 hour period

4 pm to 8 am then back for 4 pm to midnight - 8 hours of overtime. What I do not like though is that my boss could theoretically schedule me 16 hours straight (and he had done this), and skirt the law by not paying me overtime because it is a "new" workday after midnight.


I am not complaining about my job. I live fruggly, and I have lots of expenses. I bring in no more than 1000 dollars a month for 80 hours of work including a full time school schedule. I live at home but put out about 600 a month in expenses including 160 dollars for heathcare and another 40 - 60 for meds, because my job has no insurance. With gas prices I am lucky to have 70 dollars cash to live on a week... that is why every cent counts right now. I am not trying to be nit picky, but I find it apauling that an employeer can do these kind of things to you and not provide any componsation.

BTW I make 8.15 per hour, it took me over 2 years to get there.
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Old 09-18-05, 07:04 AM
  #10  
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I remember years ago at McD's they promoted me right before my six month review, just so they could say "well you just got promoted so your review period starts again" to justify not giving me a raise.

This stinks like the same BS. There should be a limit (or at least compensation) for excessive single shifts. Otherwise you could force some poor sap to work 40 hours a week and do it in one shift, and still be below the radar.

Sorry I don't know the rules where you are, so can't help you. I just hope you don't get screwed. Good luck.
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Old 09-18-05, 01:06 PM
  #11  
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Labor laws vary from state to state. Contact California's Division of Wage and Hour Compliance (may be called something different in your state) or go to their web site.

Many employers take advantage of workers, because the majority of workers are ignorant of their rights. If your employer is in violation, advise him as to the state labor laws. If your rights continue to be violated, file an official complaint. If your employer retaliates by harassing you, hire a lawyer and file a suit.
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Old 09-18-05, 01:47 PM
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Look into the three Ls:
1.Labor board.
2.Labor union.
3.Lawyer.
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Old 09-18-05, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by cruentus
Many employers take advantage of workers, because the majority of workers are ignorant of their rights.
Many of these same employers are also willing to say "We no longer require your services" should you bring up the labor law information and start throwing around "my lawyer said...". If it's an 'at will' work state, line up a new job before confronting your employer.
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Old 09-18-05, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by InfamousG
Many of these same employers are also willing to say "We no longer require your services" should you bring up the labor law information and start throwing around "my lawyer said...". If it's an 'at will' work state, line up a new job before confronting your employer.
Bingo.
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Old 09-18-05, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by InfamousG
Many of these same employers are also willing to say "We no longer require your services" should you bring up the labor law information and start throwing around "my lawyer said...". If it's an 'at will' work state, line up a new job before confronting your employer.
So your saying that my58vw has no choice but to seek other employment or accept the abuse from his employer?

An employer, who is in clear violation of wage and hour laws, who fires an employee for affirming his/her rights can be sued -- successfully. "At will" employment has nothing to do with it.

If I were my58vw, I'd do the following:

1) Research the State's wage and hour laws to determine if my employer was in compliance.
2) Line up a new job.
3) Confront my current employer, and document everything along the way.
4) Contact a lawyer about filing a law suit if I were fired as a result of affirming my rights.

Slavery has been over since 1865, I won't take that kind of crap from any employer.
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Old 09-18-05, 08:29 PM
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Most likely there isn't much you can do about it. 3rd shifters get stuck with things like this all the time.

While going through college (part-time) I did a 3rd shift computer operations job for almost 10 years. I was always getting some little form of unfairness like that very one you mentioned.

Another time I was unable to take the days off when I had jury duty as it was not during my work hours. I was expected to work 8 hours, go downtown for jury duty 8 hours and still manage to squeeze my college classes and homework in there.
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Old 09-18-05, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cruentus
So your saying that my58vw has no choice but to seek other employment or accept the abuse from his employer?

An employer, who is in clear violation of wage and hour laws, who fires an employee for affirming his/her rights can be sued -- successfully. "At will" employment has nothing to do with it.

If I were my58vw, I'd do the following:

1) Research the State's wage and hour laws to determine if my employer was in compliance.
2) Line up a new job.
3) Confront my current employer, and document everything along the way.
4) Contact a lawyer about filing a law suit if I were fired as a result of affirming my rights.

Slavery has been over since 1865, I won't take that kind of crap from any employer.
Fine. They won't fire you for bringing up the fact that they violate labor laws, they will fire you for violating some obscure rule or policy that they dredge up.

Forget to punch in/out? Late a minute or two?
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Old 09-18-05, 09:19 PM
  #18  
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BostonFixed et al. got it. If you're going to file a complaint, expect to be working at a new job very soon.
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Old 09-18-05, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by my58vw
I live in California and work a job that runs 24:7, i.e. someone is always on. I work the swing shift (moving to graveyard), and someone else comes in for 12 - 8 am. Well the graveyard person quit this week and is no showing again tonight... so I am stuck on another 16 hour shift.

Our so called work contract with the school says...

Shifts are calculated from midnight to midnight. If an employee works over midnight the second half of the shift counts as a seperate shift and the over 8 hour rule for overtime does not apply.

That is Bu!!s%^t IMO, I am working 16 hours I should get 8 hours of overtime. Does anyone know what the legality on this is or have an opinion?

BTW I have to come back at 4 pm... to midnight today... that would be considered 8 hours of overtime.
In ontario, that is legal. Thats the extent I can say.
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Old 09-19-05, 07:26 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by cruentus
So your saying that my58vw has no choice but to seek other employment or accept the abuse from his employer?

An employer, who is in clear violation of wage and hour laws, who fires an employee for affirming his/her rights can be sued -- successfully. "At will" employment has nothing to do with it.

If I were my58vw, I'd do the following:

1) Research the State's wage and hour laws to determine if my employer was in compliance.
2) Line up a new job.
3) Confront my current employer, and document everything along the way.
4) Contact a lawyer about filing a law suit if I were fired as a result of affirming my rights.
Actually, setps 1 - 3 of what you said you would do are exactly what I'm suggesting he should do.

If it is an "at will" state, it doesn't matter if you are attempting to affirm your rights as an employee. If they think that you're going to sue them if they fire you right after saying you want fair treatment, they may keep you on for another week. However... first minor incident (slowdown in performance, late by 5 minutes, leave early by 5 minutes, etc.) and you can say bye bye.

I'm not saying it is right. I'm not saying it is fair. I'm saying it's legal and no lawyer in the world can fight it, regardless of your documentation. If you leave at 7:55 but mark your for 8:00 they'll say that's time card fraud, and technically it is.

Also, most employers in certain fields know eachother. If "Spacely's Sprockets" gets sued by an employee, "Cogswell's Cogs" is going to know about it and very likely not hire "George Jetson" after "Mr. Spacely" fire George.

Slavery has been over since 1865, I won't take that kind of crap from any employer.
True, but many employers see their employees as a toilet. Just because you are entitled or have the right for something, doesn't mean your employer is going to give it to you. If you force them to follow the guidelines, they'll follow the guidelines while they walk you out the door.
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Old 09-19-05, 09:23 AM
  #21  
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Doesn't it end up just shifting the overtime hours into a different day? And if you're still under 40/wk total, then it's not overtime anyway. I've worked several jobs where I'd put in 10, 12, 14-hour days, but only for 3-4 days so the week total was 40, and there was no overtime paid in those cases.
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Old 09-19-05, 10:30 AM
  #22  
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Life sucks, this is why you work so hard to get away from a 40-hour job.
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Old 09-19-05, 03:08 PM
  #23  
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I'm surprised nobody said:

Talk to your boss. See if you can do 12 hours & have the next person come in 4 hrs early. Talk to your boss & see if he can find someone else to fill in the skipped shift. Odds are if they just lost one guy, they're not going to risk losing another one right away. But DON'T threaten to quit - unless you mean it.
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Old 09-19-05, 03:41 PM
  #24  
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I'll play devil's advocate:

If the employer is following state guidelines as to what constitutes a work day, then shouldn't we be bi*ching about how unfair the state's guidelines are instead of coming down on the employer? I mean you have to draw a line as to the beginning and ending of a workday. Maybe it's just unfortunate that some get stuck working past that line? There are always rules and regulations that an employer is going to use for their benefit, even to the detriment of their employees.

Last edited by Orikal; 09-19-05 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 09-21-05, 06:43 AM
  #25  
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And you have to realize that if you're not willing to do the ****, there is probably some mexican or Orental immigrant that is willing to do it, especially in California.
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