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Why does poor have to be

Old 05-05-06, 03:11 PM
  #51  
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Can't remember who said it here already but the best way to teach respect is to show respect. When a person experiences respect, they know what it feels like and begin to understand how important it is.
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Old 05-05-06, 03:27 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Stacey
Shokhead, I deeply resent your ad hominim generalizations on poor people. We filed on less than $15.000 this year and funny thing is your generalization as full of *****, just like you

*****wad
Filing isn't the same as paying is it? How much did you get?
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Old 05-05-06, 03:36 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
Yo yo yo wait hold on. I'm not very well to do. I don't make a whole lot of money. I work over 40 hours per week and live paycheck to paycheck. My brother is helping me with investments to help secure our futures. I don't have good health insurance.

I don't make a junkyard of my neighborhood and I have respect for others. I don't steal, I don't lie. I try not to be mean to others. I struggle to survive, but I don't think anyone owes me anything. The only reason I own the bikes I have is due to a coffee can I throw change in. Everything I own (which is not much) I have earned.

I have an education but chose not to continue in Psychology. I COULDN'T continue in Administration of Law.

I don't get food stamps, or welfare although I qualify.

But I'll tell you what I do have. I have family. I have friends. I know that I'm not doing anything wrong so I won't get into trouble. I know I work hard so nobody can say that I don't. I pay my taxes and anything else I might owe. I try not to hurt any one. I try to be honest. I give to others what I can afford to take away from myself. I try to have an open mind and open heart. I give time to those around me. I have inner peace.

Yes, I don't have a lot of money.

I must be the lowest of the low.

You're like me, broke, not poor...
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Old 05-05-06, 04:06 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Jerseysbest
Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
But I'll tell you what I do have. I have family. I have friends. I know that I'm not doing anything wrong so I won't get into trouble. I know I work hard so nobody can say that I don't. I pay my taxes and anything else I might owe. I try not to hurt any one. I try to be honest. I give to others what I can afford to take away from myself. I try to have an open mind and open heart. I give time to those around me. I have inner peace.

Yes, I don't have a lot of money.

I must be the lowest of the low.
You're like me, broke, not poor...
You're not that bad off, living better than 95% of the world's population. That's middle-class for the US and it's a growing segment. There's probably fewer "poor" people in our society than ever, percentage-wise. Just that the overclass is getting quite a spread between them and the rest.

Wealth isn't happiness and vice-versa. What it takes to get one is not the same as what it takes to achieve the other. A loving family and supportive group of friends is pretty much 90% of what most people want out of life, yet they spend most of their time chasing the dollar and end up sacrificing their family and friends. Having money doesn't give you happiness, but it does create opportunities that makes it easier to achieve love and happiness.

Just imagine... if you never ever had to work for money again... it was taken care of for the rest of your life. What would you do with yourself? I'm sure spending more time with your family would rank near the top of the list for most people. You guys are doing great!
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Old 05-05-06, 04:06 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by MERTON
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
So take out the money you have in your pocket, where did it come from? It came from an exchange, you gave someone something of value and benefit and they gave you money in return. The more people you benefit and the higher the value of your contribution to them, the more money you have. So to make a boatload of money, just look to help as many people as you can and make each each transaction of high value.
that's not always true. you can work your ass off but if you don't have something people want to pay a fair amount for then you ain't gonna make much.

some of it is luck.
Well... luck... is just having the resources to take advantage of opportunities when they come along. Opportunities in life are limitless, they're flying around in abundance everyday. It's the ones who have the vision to see these opportunities, to be able to devise a path to manifest these opportunies, to make them happen, those are the "lucky" ones.

It seems to run in the family, so there's a genetic component of some sort. Or as I said earlier, it's in the training. "Fair" is different by everyone's definition. Managers think they're paying too much, labor thinks it's not being paid enough. Usually you strike a balance in the middle somewhere such that managers end up paying you just enough so you won't quit and labor works just hard enough to not get fired.

My family came to the U.S. in the '70s with nothing more than the clothing we wore. The communists wiped out the entire 500-year history of our family, no more land, no more records, no more history. At the end, my parents just picked up us kids in their arms and whatever luggage they can carry in the other arm and left. Walked out of their house that they spent decades working for, years building and remodeling, left the city they grew up in and met and fell in love and got married in, left the country that had been home to their family for centuries and fled to a new place with nothing! We lived on government-sponsored low-income housing, lived in a small 1-bedroom apartment with a family of 5, lived off food-stamps, my mom cooked fried-chicken in rice-cooker because we didn't have a working stove, we'd scrounge dumpsters for cans and bottles to turn in at the recyclers, etc.

But you know what? My parents were smart, they worked hard and made the most of what they had learned and they taught us kids the same. I was failing at school and my mom would stay up to help me with my homework every night. I hung out with the wrong crowd at school and got thrown in juvi, so my dad moved us to a nicer neighborhood. I dropped out of university and wanted to party and by a rock-star. My dad took time off work and moved in with me for a month and made me straighten up, he cooked for me, did my laundry, everything, so that I could focus on school. No matter how hard I tried to fail in life, my family wouldn't let me.

In one generation we went from having just one change of clothes to living the good life. My dad's retired and he's traveling and visiting our homeland now. My brothers are off trapesing through Brazil and Canada now. I'm being a bum in the sun in the best place to live in the world and I'm getting ready to party for 3-days straight. The opportunities are out there, learn to see them, learn to seize them and not let go, get ready for the ride of a lifetime!

If you don't think you're being paid a "fair" wage, then find someone else that'll pay you better for your skillz, or upgrade them to be more useful to society. This is the beauty of a free-market, those who work hard, excel and contribute to society are rewarded. If you want automatic guaranteed wages, move to some communist country, see if they have it better off...
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Old 05-05-06, 04:08 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by webist
Filing isn't the same as paying is it? How much did you get?
lets just say that I didn't deduct my non-existant beach front condo as a business expense. Past that it's noneya
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Old 05-05-06, 04:16 PM
  #57  
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People act that way because the have no self worth, they got no respect as children and they give none to their children. They have no respect because there is no figure in their life that plants the seeds of nurturing love that grows into respect for others. In many cases there is no discernable future there either.

The real issue in my mind is why donít YOU be the glimmer of a better future in someoneís life?

It is not just the poor that are afflicted with this lack of human compassion and sense of human dignity. Their are many affluent people with soles just as dead as those you have described, it just manifests itself differently in their lives. They donít just tear out one tree and piss on the grass; they rip open the earth and lay waste to acres of trees at a time so that a few can live in splendor. Or they dump poison into the streams and rivers that would quench the throats of hundreds of innocent children. They do it from atop the steel towers in the protection of the boardrooms and it is YOU that goad them on with your chant of SHOW ME THE MONEY.
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Old 05-05-06, 04:26 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Stacey
lets just say that I didn't deduct my non-existant beach front condo as a business expense. Past that it's noneya
Sounds like your abit pissed at someone that does have more? I should have said neighbor.
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Old 05-05-06, 04:33 PM
  #59  
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It depends upon what the definition of "more" is. Money cannot buy everything. A sharp mind, a caring heart, the common sense to survive without all of the worldly goods. Love. Honesty. Morality and dignity. Stacey has it all, Shokhead.
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Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 05-05-06, 04:48 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by chipcom
Whoa, slow down folks. Lots of good and decent people are poor. Granted, some people are poor due to circumstances they can control, but others are poor due to circumstances beyond their control. I've been there myself, to the point of being homeless. Before we all go dissing poor folks, we should remember that any of us could be in the same boat rather quickly in todays world. I understand the people you are talking about...maybe we just need to find another label for them....like 'losers'?
Absolutely right.
The people I know and associate with are the "working poor". Both parents have jobs,
often more than one job. They have no health insurance, retirement, or savings. They
pay through the nose (through inflated interest rates) for high-mileage barely working
cars they can't afford to maintain. They are often rejected for checking accounts and are
forced to deal with high-fee check cashing joints, pawn shops, etc. Their lives are daily
struggles to survive, with no hope or help in sight. Despite this, most try their hardest
to live decent lives in terrible circumstances.
I'm no socialist or redistributionist, but a society that lets hard working families
simply go down the drain won't survive in the long run.
End of rant.
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Old 05-05-06, 05:16 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by shokhead
Education starts at home.
You'll find no argument from me there.

It doesn't end at home either, or at school. There isn't a day in your life when you can't learn something from someone and there isn't a day when you can't teach someone something.
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Old 05-05-06, 05:19 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by MERTON
and you still don't see how lucky you were to be raised by those people.... many don't have that luck.

if it weren't for that luck you'd be screwed.
I wasn't lucky, I was destined through the hard-work and choices my parents made. They gave me the background and the prodding, I still had to do the work. In fact, I went against them in the end. My mum's been grooming me to be a doctor ever since I was 4-years old. In my last year at university with the med-school applications on my desk, I decided I didn't want to be a doctor after all. This was during the Clinton era when Hillary was re-vamping the medical system. Between her and the insurance companies, doctors were being squeezed left & right; now they only make 25% of what they were back in the '80s (take-home net-income accounting for inflation, taxes and insurance-premium).

I ended up never spending a single day working in my field of microbiology, but rather started up my own business right after school. However, that wouldn't have been possible without the training my parents gave me. I learned from their mistakes in having small-businesses, I learned ways of thinking and ways of looking at life from going to school. Learning how to communicate and how to network and support others. Those lessons are way, way more valuable than the factual data that you learn from books in school, I can always flip to the correct page with the answer if I needed to find some info. It's the process of learning how to learn and figuring out how to adjust your views and attitudes that's the important part I got out of school.

The thing that you're not getting is that it's not just about you the individual, you are just part of a bigger being of family and society. It's like cells in an organism, you can't survive if teh whole doesn't survive. If you just think about yourself, life will be a continual struggle because you gotta do everything yourself. However, our modern society is an interlinked interdependent network of people with mutual benefits and contributions. I'm wearing clothing made by someone else, I'm living in a house built by someone else, I'm eating food grown by someone else, typing on a keyboard and computer designed by someone else, and built by yet another group of people. There's a tonne of people that have contributed to my life and I give them little green pieces of paper in return. It also goes the other way, and my measurement of prosperity and abundance is how many people have I helped today.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 05-05-06 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 05-05-06, 05:26 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by TexasGuy
Actually - you have the cycle a tad wrong.

They are poor because they didn't care, because they have no respect.
And yes its a vicious cycle, and much to the chagrin and benefit of Democrats and liberals and socialists, Welfare doesn't make the situation better. It just makes them care less and not work harder. Its easy to find people like that. You can see their emptiness painted all over their faces.
Whoa there, holy smoking batman!. Talk about stereotypes
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Old 05-05-06, 05:40 PM
  #64  
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People aren't stupid ya know, even the poor ones. Go down to your local welfare office and sit around for a couple hours listening in. They know a good thing then they see it and many of them are pros at milking the system. I don't blame them, I blame the system for creating the atmosphere where it's easy to "fail".

Heck, if I had two choices, to go to work 8-5 for years on end, or to get the same results with less effort, what would I pick? In my case, I chose less effort, although it's not the state that's paying for me, but same idea.
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Old 05-05-06, 05:56 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by SoonerBent
They don't care. The more we get to know the kids and their families the more we find that they don't care about improving their way of life. Anything that involves effort, like cleaning the house or the neighborhood, or going out and getting a job, they want no part of. And the kids are learning that this is the only way of life.
SB
Might I suggest a small modification to this. Based on many of the poor I have seen here in California this is not quite true. Many are willing to literally work their a$$es off. Effort is not the issue. It is delayed gratification. If they do not see how the effort helps them right now they do not see it at all. That they will be paid is about the limit for most. The idea that if they take more responsibility they will get a raise in 3 to six months is just beyond the vast majority. But that if they work hard they will be the one who gets the next job they get right away.

The sad thing is this is getting worse not better. Look at those making a very good living that have to have it now and ruin everything for themself in the long run with horrific debt.
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Old 05-05-06, 06:03 PM
  #66  
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The distinction should be made between being poor and living in poverty, there is a difference there.
When I was a kid we were poor, and lived on welfare for a time, but we used it as a hand up, and now you could consider my parents middle class.

Having lived in close proximity to poverty in both the city and the country, there are many parellels. It is often generations deep, there is often a lack of strong role models around the kids, the adults usually don't have a skill or trade, education is viewed dimly, and alcohol and drug abuse are present. When you have a group of people, whom for generations have been told they aren't good enough, they begin to act like they aren't good enough, this peretuates the cycle. When you see a neighborhood that is trashed, and it is evident the residents don't respect where they live, this is a sign of a group that has low self esteem as a whole.

To the OP who works in a school, they have the real oppurtunity to help the community by encouraging positive behavior in the students. By showing the kids the lights that are available to them, to allow them to dream, however infintesimal it may seem, this sort of thinking is the first step towards rebuilding a community. With that comes the real tough work, getting better teachers, and more funding, after school programs, sports programs, job training, adult education, finding positive role models, etc. It is hard but well worth it.
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Old 05-05-06, 07:52 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by MERTON
so being "destined" isn't lucky? O_o

by god... if i were destined to be the richest man in the world i have to say i would have no luck at all!
The difference between lucky & destined is that the results I have are directly related to the efforts my parents and I have put into our lives. The main point I'm making is that it's a group effort. I couldn't have done it without active participation of my parents, friends and teachers, and they couldn't have made me do it if I didn't want to. It's not accidental like I found a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow one day while I was out biking. It required work, day after day, years after years, continually re-adjusting course based upon what life's throwing at you, for generations. Those parents who are focusing on developing their kids' education and training, especially in real-world issues, are the ones who are creating the "luck" in their kids' lives... it may not manifest itself for years, but the ball's rolling...

Originally Posted by Keith99
Might I suggest a small modification to this. Based on many of the poor I have seen here in California this is not quite true. Many are willing to literally work their a$$es off. Effort is not the issue. It is delayed gratification. If they do not see how the effort helps them right now they do not see it at all. That they will be paid is about the limit for most. The idea that if they take more responsibility they will get a raise in 3 to six months is just beyond the vast majority. But that if they work hard they will be the one who gets the next job they get right away.
Stanford did a study of "successful" people about a decade ago. They profiled people from all races, cultures, backgrounds, education-levels, professions. These were people who got what they wanted out of life, be it career, family, health, etc, and the goals were vast and varied. However, there was one common practice... delayed gratification; not sacrificing the future for the present...
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Old 05-05-06, 08:22 PM
  #68  
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[QUOTE=Siu Blue Wind]arned.
But I'll tell you what I do have. I have family. I have friends.QUOTE]

You have true wealth that cannot be lost. Ride on, sister!
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Old 05-06-06, 06:18 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by shokhead
Sounds like your abit pissed at someone that does have more? I should have said neighbor.
Whatever
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Old 05-06-06, 07:20 PM
  #70  
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Some of the replies have been pretty well thought out and understanding, but the OP seems to have no idea what he/she is talking about. Essentially, you're just asking "Why are there poor people?" and "Why do they act less caring/kind/responsible/civilized/sophisticated/etc. than richer people?"

Uhhhhh.............................................................................................. ...................................................................Are you stupid? lol

No offense, you sound like Paris Hilton or some other ignorant jerk. "Gosh, why can't poor people make more money? Idiots!"

I like my signature quote.
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Old 05-06-06, 07:22 PM
  #71  
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Lucky does have a little to do with it, but not always.

It's more or less just determining where you want to be in this world, and never settling for anything less.

I remember how hard it was to live in california...it was not fun...making "good money", but still not being able to afford an apartment....I would have hated to be one of the people working fast food. Being broke there is just a part of life, not necessarily poverty....the poor there are off so much worse than they are in most other regions of the nation.

Thing is, you can be totally "unlucky" and still do well...you just need to keep working at becomeing whatever it is you want to be, and if you have no clue what you want to be, work towards something that will at least allow you to live a reasonable life.

Yes, parents have a part of it, but at the same time, it also take an entire community to raise a child. Parents are just the first line of education, teachers are the next, but peers and community are the final, and most important. Living in a place with few if any role models will do far more damage than just having bad parents.
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Old 05-06-06, 07:31 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by shokhead
Just today these are the cars they had,a Lexus RX300,03 Altima 3.5,bmw 325xi, 05 Grand Cherokee,a hot 66 bug,old saturn,even older VW,new pathfinder,62 chevy belair. These parents picked up there kids from kindergarden and everyone of the kids had a free lunch from the form the parents fill out saying they didnt make enough money to pay for it. We have a total of 1250 students. Wanta know hopw big our pta is,ZERO. The parents dont want to do that,its all up to someone else.
Maybe it does have something to do with teachers.

Upper and middle class families pay to have teachers help the have-nots have an education and build character. And all you do is b*tch around, and you can't even type coherently.
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Old 05-06-06, 07:36 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by TexasGuy
How have I failed? I pay 20+% to feed these people with social security, welfare, medicare, drug rehab programs, schools, teachers, etc. If it were up to me I'd only pay for national roads and put my tax money into my community and city, where I care about.
I mean ****, the more welfare you give them to "make" their lives easier, the more teachers you put there, the worse the problem becomes. Wake up people, solving the problem by being niocer, giving them more money, it's not worked for half a century plus. For some its not worked for a century plus. They're not getting smarter, They're not being patriotic, they're not caring for their children, their future, they're children's futures, their neighborhood. If something has failed so badly for so long, it's not going to solve the problem, and its not our fault that they gave up on life. They were that way a long, long time ago. I would put more blame on the schools then I would put the blame on anybody else, but ultimately it goes down to the parents.
What more do they want us to do ?
Geez, who knew there could be so much hot air in one thread?
What more do we want you to do? Seeing how the problem remains unsolved, there better be more you can do!
Or should we just ignore the root of the problem and forget the poor and lower-class?
Next, let's say they're racially inferior to the great white race.

Is welfare effective? It's hard to say, but it certainly helped my parents (immigrants from hong kong) to provide for us and move to a middle class home.

Conceited *ss****
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Old 05-06-06, 07:38 PM
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The title of this thread is "Why does poor have to be"

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Old 05-06-06, 09:51 PM
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I live in a poor neighborhood and will never do this again. Of course, I was new to the area, and I had no idea about rents and neighborhoods, so when I chose this place, I was under the assumption that it was a mixed income type situation. Of course, I got screwed and I'm stuck here. But the things I notice about this place is how little people care about upkeep and how they'll do stuff like piss in the elevators, throw up on the floors, throw their garbage down without thinking twice, spit on the floors, play their music loudly with no respect to neighbors all times of the day and night, etc. And it pisses me off that some of these poor folks sleep in shifts and run up the bills (which are shared by all tenants), which means I'm paying their bills.... never again. I plan to move and pay well enough so that I can at least find a place where people have respect for their neighbors. In my experience, the poor usually are the worst behaved, most slovenly people I've ever had to deal with/live among. Uuugh.

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