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I've turned into a grouchy, old b@st@rd

Old 03-22-07, 12:25 PM
  #76  
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You can't even listen to rap?

Quote from a t shirt I once saw:
"If my music is too loud you're too old"
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Old 03-22-07, 01:03 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Bikepacker67
Let's assume that the 90+ percent of climatologists are really just a bunch of tree-hugging Marxists, intent on destroying capitalism...

OR,

Let's assume the single digit minority who discount anthrogenic global warming are hired guns by the oil companies and current US administration...

Which seems more likely to you?
How about if we assume that every scientist who has weighed in on this, on whichever side, actually believes in good faith that their stated position is correct? We all know that ain't so, but work with me here. The fact that a majority of these operating-in-good-faith researchers feel a particular way about global warming does not make it correct. If science worked that way, Copernicus would be a long-forgotten quack, Galilleo would be a minor heretic relgated to a footnote in an obscure doctoral dissertation, and plate techtonics would have something to do with dinner dishes. Plebiscites, even plebiscites of scientists, cannot determine truth or even factual accuracy.

But again, it seems to me that arguing over whether or not global warming is "real" and caused by humans is ultimately an academic exercise. Why? Because, as I noted earlier, most of the actions we could take that arguably would have a positive impact on global warming would also have a positive effect on one or more other no-doubt-about-it ecological and (mega-industry notwithstanding) economic problems.

Unfortunately, we as a culture tend to be so fixated on finding a cause for a problem (read: "assigning blame") that we completely lose sight of figuring out the appropriate next steps. And that, my friends, is a problem that is not going to go away in your or my lifetime.
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Old 03-22-07, 01:05 PM
  #78  
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I was born as a grouchy old bastage. I am gonna be the best grouchy bastage in the whole fargin world by the time I die.
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Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
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Old 03-22-07, 05:27 PM
  #79  
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you fargin corksackers
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Did you just say "minarchist?" I'm going to start a 10-page vaginathon because only Libertarians can define Libertarianism. Also, you're mean.
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Old 03-22-07, 05:36 PM
  #80  
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Im not too grunchy, OK maybe a bit when i first get up, life is busy with the kids and hubby and work and life and and and and... but after coffee, Im always or try to be nice to all of them, I always notice that making the kids laugh before school helps them a lot

I hate people who are so grunchy they take it out on you and hurt you and you dont even know what you did, people on bf too sometimes, you see them taking out their grouchiness at others and really hurt them for no reasons.
I did notice one thing about me as Im getting older, I like silence a lot more, and loud noise makes me a bit grunchy
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Old 03-22-07, 06:41 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Monkey
It depends on what you mean by consensus. If you think that 262 of the world's leading scientific institutes who agree the GW is largely man made isn't a consensus maybe you can see if you can list 262 individual scientists who don't agree.

BTW, Astrology isn't a scientific field of study.
I prefer that YOU list the 262 who do agree.

BTW, you should probably stop looking up your horoscope.
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Old 03-22-07, 06:43 PM
  #82  
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Geez, why can't you guys just let me be grouchy? Why do you have to acid rain on my parade?

Look, we're not going to find out who's right or wrong next week, month or year. However, in twenty years or so, I'm sure we'll be hearing of a coming ice age again from the scientific experts and media. Bad news sells, even if it's fabricated.
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Old 03-22-07, 07:12 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by cantdrv55
Geez, why can't you guys just let me be grouchy? Why do you have to acid rain on my parade?

Look, we're not going to find out who's right or wrong next week, month or year. However, in twenty years or so, I'm sure we'll be hearing of a coming ice age again from the scientific experts and media. Bad news sells, even if it's fabricated.
you can be grouchy all you want
Ill move to another thread, grouchy people irritate me
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Old 03-22-07, 07:14 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Nicodemus
you fargin corksackers
i got your bells in a sling now
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Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
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Old 03-22-07, 09:23 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by blonduathlongrl
you can be grouchy all you want
Ill move to another thread, grouchy people irritate me
Don't go away mad
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Old 03-23-07, 02:31 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by cantdrv55
I prefer that YOU list the 262 who do agree.

BTW, you should probably stop looking up your horoscope.

The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change
Naomi Oreskes*


Policy-makers and the media, particularly in the United States, frequently assert that climate science is highly uncertain. Some have used this as an argument against adopting strong measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. For example, while discussing a major U.S. Environmental Protection Agency report on the risks of climate change, then-EPA administrator Christine Whitman argued, "As [the report] went through review, there was less consensus on the science and conclusions on climate change" (1). Some corporations whose revenues might be adversely affected by controls on carbon dioxide emissions have also alleged major uncertainties in the science (2). Such statements suggest that there might be substantive disagreement in the scientific community about the reality of anthropogenic climate change. This is not the case.

The scientific consensus is clearly expressed in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environmental Programme, IPCC's purpose is to evaluate the state of climate science as a basis for informed policy action, primarily on the basis of peer-reviewed and published scientific literature (3). In its most recent assessment, IPCC states unequivocally that the consensus of scientific opinion is that Earth's climate is being affected by human activities: "Human activities ... are modifying the concentration of atmospheric constituents ... that absorb or scatter radiant energy. ... [M]ost of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations" [p. 21 in (4)].

IPCC is not alone in its conclusions. In recent years, all major scientific bodies in the United States whose members' expertise bears directly on the matter have issued similar statements. For example, the National Academy of Sciences report, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions, begins: "Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise" [p. 1 in (5)]. The report explicitly asks whether the IPCC assessment is a fair summary of professional scientific thinking, and answers yes: "The IPCC's conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue" [p. 3 in (5)].

Others agree. The American Meteorological Society (6), the American Geophysical Union (7), and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) all have issued statements in recent years concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling (8).

The drafting of such reports and statements involves many opportunities for comment, criticism, and revision, and it is not likely that they would diverge greatly from the opinions of the societies' members. Nevertheless, they might downplay legitimate dissenting opinions. That hypothesis was tested by analyzing 928 abstracts, published in refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and listed in the ISI database with the keywords "climate change" (9).

The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position.

Admittedly, authors evaluating impacts, developing methods, or studying paleoclimatic change might believe that current climate change is natural. However, none of these papers argued that point.

This analysis shows that scientists publishing in the peer-reviewed literature agree with IPCC, the National Academy of Sciences, and the public statements of their professional societies. Politicians, economists, journalists, and others may have the impression of confusion, disagreement, or discord among climate scientists, but that impression is incorrect.

The scientific consensus might, of course, be wrong. If the history of science teaches anything, it is humility, and no one can be faulted for failing to act on what is not known. But our grandchildren will surely blame us if they find that we understood the reality of anthropogenic climate change and failed to do anything about it.

Many details about climate interactions are not well understood, and there are ample grounds for continued research to provide a better basis for understanding climate dynamics. The question of what to do about climate change is also still open. But there is a scientific consensus on the reality of anthropogenic climate change. Climate scientists have repeatedly tried to make this clear. It is time for the rest of us to listen.

References and Notes


A. C. Revkin, K. Q. Seelye, New York Times, 19 June 2003, A1.
S. van den Hove, M. Le Menestrel, H.-C. de Bettignies, Climate Policy 2 (1), 3 (2003).
See www.ipcc.ch/about/about.htm.
J. J. McCarthy et al., Eds., Climate Change 2001: Impacts, Adaptation, and Vulnerability (Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge, 2001).
National Academy of Sciences Committee on the Science of Climate Change, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions (National Academy Press, Washington, DC, 2001).
American Meteorological Society, Bull. Am. Meteorol. Soc. 84, 508 (2003).
American Geophysical Union, Eos 84 (51), 574 (2003).
See www.ourplanet.com/aaas/pages/atmos02.html.
The first year for which the database consistently published abstracts was 1993. Some abstracts were deleted from our analysis because, although the authors had put "climate change" in their key words, the paper was not about climate change.
This essay is excerpted from the 2004 George Sarton Memorial Lecture, "Consensus in science: How do we know we're not wrong," presented at the AAAS meeting on 13 February 2004. I am grateful to AAAS and the History of Science Society for their support of this lectureship; to my research assistants S. Luis and G. Law; and to D. C. Agnew, K. Belitz, J. R. Fleming, M. T. Greene, H. Leifert, and R. C. J. Somerville for helpful discussions.
10.1126/science.1103618


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The author is in the Department of History and Science Studies Program, University of California at San Diego, La Jolla, CA 92093, USA.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../306/5702/1686
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Old 03-23-07, 02:32 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by cantdrv55
I prefer that YOU list the 262 who do agree.

BTW, you should probably stop looking up your horoscope.
Scientific opinion on climate change

Statements by organizations
Various prominent bodies have commented on global warming. National and international scientific bodies have issued summaries of the current state of scientific knowledge on the earth's climate, most notably the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).


Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
Main article: Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
In 2007, as part of its Fourth Assessment Report, the IPCC concluded that human actions are "very likely" the cause of global warming, meaning a 90% or greater probability.[1]

"The world's leading climate scientists said global warming has begun, is very likely caused by man, and will be unstoppable for centuries, ... . The phrase very likely translates to a more than 90 percent certainty that global warming is caused by man's burning of fossil fuels. That was the strongest conclusion to date, making it nearly impossible to say natural forces are to blame."[1]

"The report said that an increase in hurricane and tropical cyclone strength since 1970 more likely than not can be attributed to man-made global warming. The scientists said global warming's connection varies with storms in different parts of the world, but that the storms that strike the Americas are global warming-influenced."[2]

"On sea levels, the report projects rises of 7-23 inches by the end of the century. That could be augmented by an additional 4-8 inches if recent surprising polar ice sheet melt continues."[3]


Joint science academies’ statement
In 2005 the national science academies of the G8 nations, plus Brazil, China and India, three of the largest emitters of greenhouse gases in the developing world, signed a statement on the global response to climate change. The statement stresses that the scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action [4], and explicitly endorsed the IPCC consensus.


U.S. National Research Council, 2001
In 2001 the Committee on the Science of Climate Change of the National Research Council published Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions [5]. This report explicitly endorses the IPCC view of attribution of recent climate change as representing the view of the scientific community:

The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability. Human-induced warming and associated sea level rises are expected to continue through the 21st century... The IPCC's conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue. [6]

American Meteorological Society
The American Meteorological Society (AMS) statement adopted by their council in 2003 said:

There is now clear evidence that the mean annual temperature at the Earth's surface, averaged over the entire globe, has been increasing in the past 200 years. There is also clear evidence that the abundance of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has increased over the same period. In the past decade, significant progress has been made toward a better understanding of the climate system and toward improved projections of long-term climate change... Human activities have become a major source of environmental change. Of great urgency are the climate consequences of the increasing atmospheric abundance of greenhouse gases... Because greenhouse gases continue to increase, we are, in effect, conducting a global climate experiment, neither planned nor controlled, the results of which may present unprecedented challenges to our wisdom and foresight as well as have significant impacts on our natural and societal systems. [7]

Federal Climate Change Science Program, 2006
On May 2, 2006, the Federal Climate Change Science Program commissioned by the Bush administration in 2002 released the first of 21 assessments that concluded that there is clear evidence of human influences on the climate system (due to changes in greenhouse gases, aerosols, and stratospheric ozone) [8]. The study said that observed patterns of change over the past 50 years cannot be explained by natural processes alone, though it did not state what percentage of climate change might be anthropogenic in nature.


Other organizations
Other scientific organizations have made position statements on climate change.

American Geophysical Union position statement on greenhouse gases and climate change (also endorsed by the American Institute of Physics[9])
Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions, National Academy of Sciences, Commission on Geosciences, Environment and Resources, (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 2001).
Joint statement on the Science of Climate Change, issued by the Australian Academy of Sciences, Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts, Brazilian Academy of Sciences, Royal Society of Canada, Caribbean Academy of Sciences, Chinese Academy of Sciences, French Academy of Sciences, German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina, Indian National Science Academy, Indonesian Academy of Sciences, Royal Irish Academy, Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei (Italy), Academy of Sciences Malaysia, Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand, Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, and Royal Society (UK).
A position paper of the Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London.
Position Statement on Global Climate Change adopted by the Geological Society of America
Policy Statement on Climate Variability and Change by the American Association of State Climatologists (AASC)
Australian Medical Association statement on climate change
American Chemical Society (unsigned) statement on Global Climate Change
The only major scientific organization that rejects the finding of human influence on recent climate is the American Association of Petroleum Geologists.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scienti...climate_change
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Old 03-23-07, 04:21 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by KrisPistofferson View Post
Did you just say "minarchist?" I'm going to start a 10-page vaginathon because only Libertarians can define Libertarianism. Also, you're mean.
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Old 03-23-07, 07:45 AM
  #89  
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What do you expect from a poster whose handle is a misspelling of "Can't Drive 55"?
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Old 03-23-07, 04:45 PM
  #90  
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"The scientific consensus might, of course, be wrong. If the history of science teaches anything, it is humility...Many details about climate interactions are not well understood, and there are ample grounds for continued research to provide a better basis for understanding climate dynamics. The question of what to do about climate change is also still open"

Sounds like a theory and not a fact like Gore and certain members here are pushing it. Humilty is exactly what the scientific community is lacking.

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Old 03-23-07, 04:47 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Bikepacker67
What do you expect from a poster whose handle is a misspelling of "Can't Drive 55"?
Check out your handle, bikepacker67. Shouldn't it say, "The pump doesn't work"?
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Old 03-23-07, 06:21 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Nicodemus
pwned

hey.. that's what he gets for debating politics with a member of the P&R crew.. he should stick to foo, and leave GW, religion and all other worldly matter's to the experts.

. .We leave it for you ppl to decide upon the 'best name for a cat' -- and you all should leave it to us to decide how the world should be run.
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Old 03-23-07, 08:23 PM
  #93  
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9 out of 10 Scientists agree that Rap Music cause global warming.
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Old 03-23-07, 08:24 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by svt4cam
9 out of 10 Scientists agree that Rap Music cause global warming.
95% of scientists agree that politicians and their hot air are the prime mover in the Global Warming phenomenon!
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Old 03-23-07, 08:59 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by cantdrv55
I can't stand rap.

I can't stand loud obnoxious music, especially rap.

I think it's stupid to spend so much on bling yet live in an apartment.

I think Al Gore is full of sh1t with his carbon offsets bs. The guy has multiple homes, big a$$ homes with air conditioning, etc. He uses more energy that most households yet he has the gall to lecture us. What a hypocrite.

I don't think global warming is caused by or even worsened, accelerated by human beings. It is what it is. There have been numerous climate changes in earth's history, most came before we discovered fire. The length of each warming/cooling are all estimations with huge margins of error, comparatively. How someone can say that this warming is happening sooner and faster is just stupid. And why isn't there consensus amongst climatologists anyway? How can the media accept global warming as fact if the experts can't even agree on the basic issues?

Anyway, I've turned into a grouchy, old b@st@rd and I'm only 43. Maybe I'll mellow in my 50s.

I still love you though, boyfriend!
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Old 03-24-07, 05:34 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by red house
hey.. that's what he gets for debating politics with a member of the P&R crew.. he should stick to foo, and leave GW, religion and all other worldly matter's to the experts.

. .We leave it for you ppl to decide upon the 'best name for a cat' -- and you all should leave it to us to decide how the world should be run.

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