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In general, do you have a favorable view of public education?

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View Poll Results: In general, do you have a favorable view of public education?
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Other. Please explain
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Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

In general, do you have a favorable view of public education?

Old 03-20-08, 05:33 PM
  #51  
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I voted no...

"When I think back on all the crap I learned in High School, its a wonder I can think at all.
But my lack of education hasn't hurt me none, I can still read the writing on the wall...."

It was a good thing I spent a lot of years absorbing what they didn't teach me in school - that was the writing on the wall - if you want to get ahead, you have to be educated - but if the school systems fails you, you still can educate yourself.

An awful lot of money is spent for poor results. The money would not be an issue if the results were good.
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Old 03-20-08, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by skinnyone View Post
Thats what I was getting at .
I'd disagree on that front-even in a near perfect setting in Bethesda, the public schools are really not that hot. Ended up sending my kid to private school.

At best, public schools meet the needs of the middle 50% of their students. Kids at either end are SOL.

Basically, the K-12 public education system is run by mediocre, unionized dolts who will fight like hell to keep it that way. There are exceptions, of course, but for what we all pay in taxes, we should get more.
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Old 03-20-08, 05:56 PM
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Not to cause a food fight - but does someone actually know the answer to the following question?

Since the NEA is so powerful - why doesn't it shutdown the schools until the basic things that are wrong are fixed? They seemed to be able to strike for better pay - how about strike for better conditions for students and teachers?

Most teachers I hear from hate the current situation - but think they are powerless to do anything. I just don't get it.

Not really any of my concern now since I don't live in the USA anymore, don't pay taxes there and all my kids are grown and they don't have kids. But, I do worry about the fate of the USA with such a poorly educated population.
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Old 03-20-08, 06:11 PM
  #54  
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I feel that the US education system (public) is a one size fits all model. Will the same system in NH work in a much lower income community, where the idea of college is unknown?

Does anybody know an average breakdown of the distribution of money received by public schools? I assume a large portion goes to salaries. How about textbooks?

I know that there is a push to get more science/math oriented people. In my experience, these two were taught as completely separate entities -- yet they are in separable. Perhaps classes should no longer be taught separately, but together, giving opportunities for students to recognize seamless connections between subjects. On the neurological level, this improves memory. Also, seems to me that htis would bolster critical thinking skills. Just sayin'
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Old 03-20-08, 06:18 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
I believe Georgia's education system is a travesty.
It has more to do with teaching children how to behave in an institutionalized system and very little to do with education.
Amen
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Old 03-20-08, 06:27 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by phantomcow2 View Post
I feel that the US education system (public) is a one size fits all model. Will the same system in NH work in a much lower income community, where the idea of college is unknown?

Does anybody know an average breakdown of the distribution of money received by public schools? I assume a large portion goes to salaries. How about textbooks?

I know that there is a push to get more science/math oriented people. In my experience, these two were taught as completely separate entities -- yet they are in separable. Perhaps classes should no longer be taught separately, but together, giving opportunities for students to recognize seamless connections between subjects. On the neurological level, this improves memory. Also, seems to me that htis would bolster critical thinking skills. Just sayin'
A lot currently gets sucked up by administrators and never makes to the class room (either in the form of books or teachers). My recollection is that in Chicago, there are actually as many admins as teachers.

Beyond that, it's a tough circle. The pay stinks, so the recruiting base for the teachers is poor. You can't change the system without the union voting for it, but that would put half their constituency at risk. That's why vouchers are being discussed at all, and why the unions hate them - it's an end run around the system.
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Old 03-20-08, 08:56 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by SpongeDad View Post
A lot currently gets sucked up by administrators and never makes to the class room (either in the form of books or teachers). My recollection is that in Chicago, there are actually as many admins as teachers.

Beyond that, it's a tough circle. The pay stinks, so the recruiting base for the teachers is poor. You can't change the system without the union voting for it, but that would put half their constituency at risk. That's why vouchers are being discussed at all, and why the unions hate them - it's an end run around the system.
My wife and I have discussed the money issues often. Depending on the district, the average taxes collected and spent per student vary but the range of $9000 to $12,000 comes to mind. Figure 20 students per classroom and you end up with $180,000 to $240,000 per classroom. Total up the classrooms and you come up with a huge chunk of change. Where in the world does this money go? It certainly does not go to the teachers.
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Old 03-20-08, 08:59 PM
  #58  
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OP=No.
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Old 03-21-08, 06:22 PM
  #59  
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Very cool opinions! The power of the internet to share views and opinions is huge. I specially like the international and diverse national perspectives. Now, how do we harness this? How do we exploit this?
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Old 03-21-08, 10:24 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by SpongeDad View Post
I'd disagree on that front-even in a near perfect setting in Bethesda, the public schools are really not that hot. Ended up sending my kid to private school.

At best, public schools meet the needs of the middle 50% of their students. Kids at either end are SOL.

Basically, the K-12 public education system is run by mediocre, unionized dolts who will fight like hell to keep it that way. There are exceptions, of course, but for what we all pay in taxes, we should get more.
I guess the opportunity is there to seek advanced courses right? The onus is on the kids/parents to recognize the opportunities. You still need someone to occasionally seek guidance from and as long as that is there, they are still somewhat catering to your entire spectrum. I would however be in favor of tougher standards rather than reducing work load. Kids have a way of rising up to challenges and a competitive class room will help immensely.

However a Private school would still hold their students to a much higher standards.
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Old 03-21-08, 11:03 PM
  #61  
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i could have been dumped into college without the previous 12 years of education and nothing would have been different. i'm probably wrong to some degree, but that degree seems to be REALLY DAMN SMALL.
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Old 03-21-08, 11:19 PM
  #62  
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and how is it that are schools are the worst in the world but also suck up the most money?

this disturbs me with my university. they spend money on things like new pool tables, tree, coin ponds... and then can't even be bothered to fix the leaks in the ceiling at the art building. and this is supposed to be a good university!


oh, and the 8 classes a day thing needs to be reduced. i think it should be more like college with 4 classes per semester.... important classes at that, and not things like typilng classes.
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Old 03-21-08, 11:31 PM
  #63  
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I voted other. Its not the educational system. It's that the majority of the kids are more interested in their social life, dating, the other sex. Than education. And the kids that do care, the rowdy kids make classroom discipline IMPOSSIBLE.
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Old 03-22-08, 02:31 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by cyclezealot View Post
I voted other. Its not the educational system. It's that the majority of the kids are more interested in their social life, dating, the other sex. Than education. And the kids that do care, the rowdy kids make classroom discipline IMPOSSIBLE.

I tend to agree, and most of those attitudes come from the parents, or the lack of "parenting" skills. I've worked in local middle and high schools and am amazed at the legions of little dopes wasting everyone's time there. No amount of money will cure this problem.
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Old 03-22-08, 08:51 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by skinnyone View Post
I guess the opportunity is there to seek advanced courses right? The onus is on the kids/parents to recognize the opportunities. You still need someone to occasionally seek guidance from and as long as that is there, they are still somewhat catering to your entire spectrum. I would however be in favor of tougher standards rather than reducing work load. Kids have a way of rising up to challenges and a competitive class room will help immensely.

However a Private school would still hold their students to a much higher standards.
My son was at the top of his public school class and well behaved. The net result was that they ignored him and focused their attention on other kids (in classes of 25 or more kids). His response was to become totally bored and frustrated with school. Then there was the totally BS modern forms of teaching math. I basically had to teach him the right way myself (things like actually getting the precisely correct answer.) Again, this is in one of the best school districts in the country.

My guess is that to the extent that Bethesda produces good students, it's more reflective of the parents paying attention than anything the teachers are actually doing.

You are absolute correct about kids rising to challenges. My son is now in a much more challenging, small class environment and he's doing great and much happier. I can afford the school, but a lot of people can't, and frankly shouldn't have to. We all pay a butt load in taxes for our public schools. Everyone's kids should be in schools where they are challenged and prepared to become productive members of society. (Spongedad's one and only lefty rant).
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Old 03-22-08, 09:18 AM
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Heres a link to a Forbes study ranking schools on bang for buck.

http://www.forbes.com/businessintheb...05schools.html

Note - Montgomery County MD (includes Bethesda) is near top and spends $8824 per student, while DC which is literally next door, is at the bottom, spends $10473 per student.

Money is not the problem. As a country, we have a few schools in nice suburbs that at best serve the needs of the rank and file, and a lot of schools that don't even do that. The only thing that prevents this country from going in the tank is that somewhere in college at least some of the students figure out they're going to have to perform if they want to get ahead, and they put the pedal down.
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Old 03-22-08, 09:43 AM
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Well since we're also on the subject of private education as well, my opinion is that the best schools can be found in one comprehensive list:
http://www.ctcl.com/

Colleges that Change Lives.
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Old 03-22-08, 09:45 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by goldfishin View Post

oh, and the 8 classes a day thing needs to be reduced. i think it should be more like college with 4 classes per semester.... important classes at that, and not things like typilng classes.
8 classes a day?!
Where do you go to school? Typical full time course load at UNH is 4 classes per semester, and usually you don't even have all your classes in one day!
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Old 03-22-08, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SpongeDad View Post
My son was at the top of his public school class and well behaved. The net result was that they ignored him and focused their attention on other kids (in classes of 25 or more kids). His response was to become totally bored and frustrated with school. Then there was the totally BS modern forms of teaching math. I basically had to teach him the right way myself (things like actually getting the precisely correct answer.) Again, this is in one of the best school districts in the country.
Exactly right. I think it often takes the form of elementary school soccer teams: The top get no coaching, they're already good. The middle get all the coaching, in hopes that they'll reach the top. And the bottom get a half ass coaching, they're not worth the bother anyways.

This net result is that those on the top will never -- as long as in public school and not influenced by external intellectual stimuli -- reach higher. This is a disservice to the world; all students should be challenged and pushed to raise their standards. How about meeting students where they are?
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Old 03-22-08, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sherbornpeddler View Post
Very cool opinions! The power of the internet to share views and opinions is huge. I specially like the international and diverse national perspectives. Now, how do we harness this? How do we exploit this?
Galvanize and organize more of the public, form a non profit organization, and lobby in Washington.
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Old 03-22-08, 02:37 PM
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Yes you are right. Is there such an organization that would be better to add support or start from scratch?
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Old 03-22-08, 02:59 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by sherbornpeddler View Post
Yes you are right. Is there such an organization that would be better to add support or start from scratch?
8+ yrs ago it was the Republican Party, but I doubt they have the stomach to fight with teachers unions now.

Support voucher programs locally. There's 1700 slots in DC for city kids to go good private schools with vouchers worth $7.5K (not the full $10.5K they should be getting).
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Old 03-22-08, 03:14 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by SpongeDad View Post
8+ yrs ago it was the Republican Party, but I doubt they have the stomach to fight with teachers unions now.

Support voucher programs locally. There's 1700 slots in DC for city kids to go good private schools with vouchers worth $7.5K (not the full $10.5K they should be getting).
The same political party, that most of its members don't believe in evolution.

The problem isn't Democratic or Republican.
.
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Old 03-22-08, 03:22 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Ih8lucky13 View Post
The same political party, that most of its members don't believe in evolution.

The problem isn't Democratic or Republican.
.
As to your first point, glad to see the mindless smear is alive and well in Foo.

As to your second, you would have to be a brain dead liberal to not understand that the teacher's union is strongly aligned with the Democratic Party. As such, very few Dems have the stones to challenge the teachers, which makes the vouchers in DC even that much more of a miracle. There is, therefore, an undeniable political component here.
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Old 03-22-08, 04:27 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by SpongeDad View Post
As to your first point, glad to see the mindless smear is alive and well in Foo.

As to your second, you would have to be a brain dead liberal to not understand that the teacher's union is strongly aligned with the Democratic Party. As such, very few Dems have the stones to challenge the teachers, which makes the vouchers in DC even that much more of a miracle. There is, therefore, an undeniable political component here.
While the union alignment is hardly a surprise. The loss in tax revenue for the school is a direct fallout out the present administration. Lets not forget some of the stupidity of No Child Left Behind act.
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