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 11-23-08, 12:53 AM #1 RubenX  Look! My Spine! Thread Starter     Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kissimmee, FL Bikes: Posts: 620 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) Techie Prediction: No More Comercials What's video, techie speaking? A list of secuencial frames/pictures. And a picture is a collection of pixels. Each pixel have a position (x,y) and a value (color). But lets say that we will start our pixel #1 at the left upper corner of the screen, working our way to the right and to the bottom, line by line. That way we get rid of the Xs and Ys of the pixel's position and we end up with a pure stream of values. As one frame ends, the next one starts. That will be our Video Stream. But we still have a freaking lot of those values and the range on them is very big too. So now we have to compress it. We could then take a group of let's say 10 or 20 values and calculate the average. Then substitute the group of values with that average. Also, we could use proportions to convert the value itself (zero to 32m?) into a percentage (1 to 100) and make the values smaller. Now imagine that we are going to graph our new compressed stream... it should look something like this (kinda): Now let's say that we record TV content and create compressed stream versions of it (very very compressed). It doesn't matter if the sources had different resolutions or if two copies of the same content are different due to stuff like a weaker signal or whatever. We are compresing the streams so much that the end result should be almost the same. Now we can start searching for patterns. Choose a Start Value (SV) and start going forward till you get another value that's equal to SV. After a match (MV), then look for the next one, is SV+1 value == MV+1 value? if yes, SV+2 == MV+3? and so on. When the pattern breaks you could go to a database and make an entry saying that there's a patter_id #1 that was found on the stream runs from xx secs to xx secs and repeats at yy secs to yy secs. Now keep working the stream and keep finding more repetitions of the detected patterns and new patterns. After a while we gonna have a DB full with patterns. Some patterns will repeat themselves quite a few times and are gonna have a fix lenght (30 secs?). They are going to be repeated on different streams, recordered from different channels/shows. And this will be our comercials DB. Once this comercials are identified/verified the software doing the recording can watch out for those streams Live and skip them (don't record them). This comercials DB could also be shared by many users. Kinda like spam filtering does now days. And not only we could skip comercials, we could also use the method to identify a piece of video, like the iphone does when you use it to identify a song. This technologie will be very cool and will be standard someday.... I predict. If you agree,let me know. Note: No, I didn't proff read nor ran the spell cheker cuz I'm tired and sleepy. And if you don't understand it, no worries. I probably won't understand it myself in 24h (I'm now enlightened).
11-23-08, 01:07 AM   #2
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 11-23-08, 01:14 AM #3 RubenX  Look! My Spine! Thread Starter     Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kissimmee, FL Bikes: Posts: 620 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) Ok, maybe I had too much cofee... what I'm trying to say if that is not too difficult to make a software that could go trough a bunch of video recordings and take the comercials out. Without relaying on the usual tricks (volume changes, one or 2 empty frames, etc), but tryllu recognizing that the video clip repeats itself, ergo, it must be a commercial.
11-23-08, 01:26 AM   #4
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I gotcha. Interesting idea. I could see it working.
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 11-23-08, 01:41 AM #5 busted knuckles Senior Member   Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: wa Bikes: Posts: 416 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 9 Post(s) But how would I know what to buy?
11-23-08, 01:54 AM   #6
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 Originally Posted by SingingSabre I gotcha. Interesting idea. I could see it working.
And I just had some more coffee so I came up with another twist:

If I had the time and the money (for equipment and stuff) I would definitelly do this a reality. It should not take me more than 6 months of full time programming. The hardest part would be to teach the software how to read all the different video formats out there, but there's no need cuz I could use one of the many transcoders out there, transcode all my content to ONE format and teach t he software to read that ONE format.

Once I get the software running, I will have a system capable of identifiying 2 identical video streams. So let's say I have a file named "Spiderman 3.avi" and I tell the software that this is indeed spiderman 3... then I could take another copy, even on a different format and with different quality (torrent anyone?) pass it trough the software and it will correctly identify it as Spiderman 3.

but the software could only identify what it has seen before, provided that I already told him what's what, right? So I still can't market it as the ultimate IMDB killer movie collection organizer of the decade.... but with the software running, I can construct a big arse DVR that could be set to record 24x7 a big bunch of TV programming. Knowing that TV listings are usually correct, I could let it build the video identification DV in full automatic mode. I could even subscribe to some internet based video club (netflix like) and put a wrapper script that will feed movies to the software.

And some time later, with the software running and the movie DB growing, I can sell the whole thing to some company in the movie collection organizer software" categorie. People could then buy the software, and it could organize all your torrents, even those that are wrongly named.

Nobody afaik has done this. And it's not difficult to do, really. I can do it, alone, in a few months... and be a millionaire by next year. But again, I don't have the time and the money required so, somebody else will do it and it's gonna suck knowing it could have been me. But I will still be able to google the BF archives and prove my grandchildren that I predicted it.

 11-23-08, 02:33 AM #7 TonyCtattoo Senior Member   Join Date: Nov 2007 Bikes: Posts: 112 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) but they arent reading the formats he said its reading pixle maps
 11-23-08, 02:41 AM #8 TonyCtattoo Senior Member   Join Date: Nov 2007 Bikes: Posts: 112 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) err meant you
 11-23-08, 02:50 AM #9 RubenX  Look! My Spine! Thread Starter     Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kissimmee, FL Bikes: Posts: 620 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) true... the core software would work by analizing a pixel map... that pixel map would be the very very compressed version of the video.... but I still have to be able to read that video from whatever format it is currently saved... So I need to read at least ONE type of format... then transcode everything to that format and feed the core software... or feed a pixel map generator... then feed the core software. If I could only explain it as clear as I can see it in my mind
 11-23-08, 03:15 AM #10 mlts22  Senior Member   Join Date: Aug 2006 Bikes: Posts: 998 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I'd see what you can do to patent that, although part of the algorithm you describe is already used in the MPEG compression for frame deltas. Better you making cash off of it than some fat-cat firm who would use it for suing college students and grandmas in the ground by saying some random download matched the scene change signature.
 11-23-08, 06:36 AM #11 Grumpy McTrumpy gmt     Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Binghamton, NY Bikes: Posts: 12,501 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 40 Post(s) Then the ad guys figure out a way around your scheme. Just kill your TV. Much easier.
11-23-08, 06:52 AM   #12
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King Termite obviously isn't awake yet, so

pgoat prediction: No More Speling
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 Originally Posted by jsharr People whose sig line does not include a jsharr quote annoy me.

 11-23-08, 06:56 AM #13 Grumpy McTrumpy gmt     Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Binghamton, NY Bikes: Posts: 12,501 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 40 Post(s) is that some new anti-spelling shampoo?
 11-23-08, 06:56 AM #14 Grumpy McTrumpy gmt     Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Binghamton, NY Bikes: Posts: 12,501 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 40 Post(s) (notice the root of that joke comes from a COMMERCIAL) full circle.
11-23-08, 07:02 AM   #15
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ba-BOOM crash
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 Originally Posted by jsharr People whose sig line does not include a jsharr quote annoy me.

 11-23-08, 09:55 AM #16 CdCf Videre non videri   Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Bikes: 1 road bike (simple, light), 1 TT bike (could be more aero, could be lighter), 1 all-weather commuter and winter bike, 1 Monark 828E ergometer indoor bike Posts: 3,208 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I can see this becoming less popular when entire sequences are cut from shows when they begin with a summary of a previous episode, or an "in this episode, you'll see this:" at the start of the show. And some shows and movies have scenes or fragments that repeat, either as a flashback or as a time loop (think Star Trek). And it still wouldn't cut out commercials that never repeat... Compression artifacts could also mess things up, depending on how picky the recognition algorithm would have to be...
 11-23-08, 09:58 AM #17 Grumpy McTrumpy gmt     Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Binghamton, NY Bikes: Posts: 12,501 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 40 Post(s) can you develop an anti product-placement algorithm too? It would be great to see all the gratuitous shots of coke cans and BMWs and stuff disappear from movies. All of the little black holes instead would be funny.
 11-23-08, 09:59 AM #18 Alfster  long time visiter     Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: in the Northern Tundra Bikes: 2005 Trek 6700 disc 2007 Orbea Onix 2009 Raleigh One Way Posts: 615 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 6 Post(s) OK, my day started out at a nice relaxing 9am on Sunday morning. I then had a great breakfast and played some fetch with the pups. Everything was great, right up until I clicked on this thread. I consider myself quite intelligent, however I'm pretty sure I re-read the 5th paragraph 4 times without comprehension. WTH?????
 11-23-08, 10:03 AM #19 Grumpy McTrumpy gmt     Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Binghamton, NY Bikes: Posts: 12,501 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 40 Post(s) trying to identify repeatable patterns in the video stream that identify them as ads.
 11-23-08, 10:45 AM #20 Tom Stormcrowe Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset.     Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Florida Bikes: Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike Posts: 16,128 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I know just enough about coding to know you have an interesting idea here, although you might actually make more money from the Ad Agencies themselves if they buy the patent from you to suppress it. Develop a workable pattern recognition algorithm and patent it, and place it on the market. __________________ . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
 11-23-08, 11:26 AM #21 skinnyone Dude wheres my guads?     Join Date: May 2005 Location: Guess Bikes: Not enough Posts: 2,680 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Not to pour cold water over the idea, but the size of the ad database and the search algorithm+time it takes is likely prohibitive. I would look into decomposing a 10 min video signal to see if there is any additional info that lets you tag and remove ads. TIVO iniitally offered skipping ads as part of its service but later abandoned that due to MPAA pressure I believe. Since this happened in pseudo realtime, (as in build a little buffer and you can then skip ads) I bet there is some header someplace in the video stream that separates ads from good content - or even a long nulling pulse (black level) before the start of the next frame or something like that. Last edited by skinnyone; 11-23-08 at 12:32 PM.
11-23-08, 11:28 AM   #22
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 Originally Posted by Alfster OK, my day started out at a nice relaxing 9am on Sunday morning. I then had a great breakfast and played some fetch with the pups. Everything was great, right up until I clicked on this thread. I consider myself quite intelligent, however I'm pretty sure I re-read the 5th paragraph 4 times without comprehension. WTH?????
He is trying to describe his search algorithm.

 11-23-08, 12:18 PM #23 DannoXYZ  Senior Member     Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Saratoga, CA Bikes: Posts: 11,633 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 35 Post(s) This reminds me of the commercial-zapping routines they had on VCRs in the '80s. Although that required a signal from the broadcaster, a quick "blurp-blurp" sound. That signaled the VCR to pause recording for the next 30-seconds. It was really cool because could record all my favourite shows and watch them later with no commercials. I'm sure the advertisers complained and the commercial-announcing blurps were gone... I could really use RubenX's scheme to weed out the stupid "Starter Wife" commercials...
11-23-08, 12:28 PM   #24
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 Originally Posted by DannoXYZ I could really use RubenX's scheme to weed out the stupid "Starter Wife" commercials...
I empathize with you there, but what will it do for Starter Wife overlay commercials at the bottom of the screen announcing the next episode? The most entertaining thing I can think of is to turn it into a lightgun shooter game.
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11-23-08, 12:53 PM   #25
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 Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy Then the ad guys figure out a way around your scheme.
Already done. I used to work for a company whose specialty was putting the ads into the content, squeezing the picture a bit to make room for an ad at the bottom, or bottom and sides, or even laying the ad right over the content.
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