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a social/dating question for the men of Foo

Old 02-21-09, 11:01 AM
  #1  
Snicklefritz
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a social/dating question for the men of Foo

Foo is incredible...I've got comments and answers on everything from random bike stuff, to english grammar, soil science and horse training!!

Ok so here's another one, that I'm curious to get a guy's perspective on.

Some of the social circles I move in are filled with women who are very assertive with the guys. Not in a bad way, but where the guy doesn't really have to do anything to get a conversation going with any of the women etc. In other words, the women are generally the first to (1) initiate a conversation (2) go for the number (3) suggest that they and the guy hang out/meet for drinks/go to dinner etc.

There are women for whom this is just not our style. They enjoy flirting just as much as the next person, but feel the guy should make the first move...then once he does... ;-)
Problem is, because a high percentage of the women are assertive, the guys think well if the women isn't assertive right off the bat then it means she isn't interested. What are some good ways to deal with this from a guy's perspective if this sort of behavior is so pervasive?
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Old 02-21-09, 11:13 AM
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You're kidding, right? I'd almost see this as a troll post. Never had the experience of an assertive female hittin' on an average looking guy like me who displays no indication of level of wealth or social status. Although it sounds like a nice change, I don't really know what I'd do in that situation.
 
Old 02-21-09, 11:18 AM
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Just be you. You can only ever expect real chemistry with anyone if you are yourself to begin with. If you are shyer, wait for the conversation to take place but be responsive when it does. The rest will fall into place. Don't worry about what other people who obviously are assertive for a reason intimidate the way you do things. Keep pedaling and stay cool.
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Old 02-21-09, 11:20 AM
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I am just the type of guy who would benefit from the approach of your more assertive friends. I can carry a decent conversation, but I am "shy" about making anything happen if I come across a girl I am attracted to. Like a few weeks ago I was getting my haircut next to this beautful girl in the chair to my left. I was in a funny/entertaining mood and the banter I was having w/my stylist made the girl to my left smile and laugh (and no, I don't think she was laughing AT me). She looked over at me and was smiling, and because I was attracted to her I kinda got shy and looked away. Her haircut was done before mine, she got up, and paid, and away she went. Very disappointing; I asked the other cutter who she was and she said it was not a regular, so she couldn't help me pass along my name or whatever.

Getting back to your question, I haven't personally experienced this assertiveness you describe. Either it's because just not that many women are interested, or it's a different part of the country where attitudes are more conservative. However, if I had more women approach me willing to get my number, suggest dinner, etc., in my daily life, I would probably make less effort to approach women on my own. In fact, my first romantic "experience" was brought on by an assertive girl in college who made things happen. Once I feel like I have "permission" I am more confident; but the risk to my ego of approaching a girl, especially with others watching, makes me very self conscious.

So, from my perspective, a good way to deal with your issue from a guy's perspective is that if you can tell a guy is interested in you (c'mon, you know you can tell), and if you are interested, then give him some help. You don't have to suggest dinner/drinks or be too assertive, but if you can at least start the conversation and maybe offer your phone number, that would help both you and the guy.

Another thing to consider is that, around the area where I live there are alot of "escort" type businesses, topless bars, etc., and a woman who is as assertive as you describe might put me a little on the defensive thinking she may be a pro.
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Old 02-21-09, 11:21 AM
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Personally, I'd enjoy it; however, my wife would have serious issues with it.

That said, there are a myriad of ways for a woman to initiate contact without being regarded as overly assertive. Simple eye contact is often sufficient. That indicates interest, but isn't horribly assertive. Remember, guys like a bit of a challenge as well.....we're natural hunters by nature. Give us an indicator that you are open to being pursued, and then enjoy the chase where he chases you until you catch him
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Old 02-21-09, 11:27 AM
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give them subtle clues that men actually understand.
we are terrible with subtle messages and we're quite clueless at times.

so body language, kinda like these will work if the guy has a clue:
https://www.essortment.com/lifestyle/...angua_sjcw.htm
https://www.effective-communicating.c...-language.html

me, I wouldn't warm up to anyone unless I've met them several times before.
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Old 02-21-09, 11:29 AM
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Yeah, a lot of you guys are getting at the point I was trying to make...when women are in circles where guys don't have to make the first move the suggestions are good for how to get beyond that. It's not about shyness at all since neither I nor my friends have a problem with it, but sometimes we get tired of making the first move just because that's most other womens' m.o. I've tried it that way before like a lot of these other women do, but sometimes it's nice to go back to the traditional role where the guy initiates something...


I should qualify this by saying that the "circles" I'm talking about aren't bars or clubs (in the traditional sense). It's about a large group of people (couple hundred) that are getting together for some activities. Think Sierra club for example (although that's not what this is). So these people aren't running into each other for the first time. It's more like you see people on and off as part of the club's activities depending on who shows up to which event.

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Old 02-21-09, 11:30 AM
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She is not inept and can obviously hold a conversation once brought into one. Hence the fact that this thread has been created. Starting a conversation will just provide the opportunity. It is equally as important to RECEIVE and REPLY a conversation once given any opportunity and not pass up the chance.
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Old 02-21-09, 11:33 AM
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see? we're clueless
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Old 02-21-09, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Snicklefritz View Post
Foo is incredible...I've got comments and answers on everything from random bike stuff, to english grammar, soil science and horse training!!

Ok so here's another one, that I'm curious to get a guy's perspective on.

Some of the social circles I move in are filled with women who are very assertive with the guys. Not in a bad way, but where the guy doesn't really have to do anything to get a conversation going with any of the women etc. In other words, the women are generally the first to (1) initiate a conversation (2) go for the number (3) suggest that they and the guy hang out/meet for drinks/go to dinner etc.

There are women for whom this is just not our style. They enjoy flirting just as much as the next person, but feel the guy should make the first move...then once he does... ;-)
Problem is, because a high percentage of the women are assertive, the guys think well if the women isn't assertive right off the bat then it means she isn't interested. What are some good ways to deal with this from a guy's perspective if this sort of behavior is so pervasive?
Given I'm ultra shy, I want to ride horses with you guys.
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Old 02-21-09, 12:45 PM
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I give up pretty easily. I talk, joke, flirt, whatever, but if I don't see any of the same interest from the woman, there really isn't any reason to continue.

Being a guy is pretty tough. We get rejected a lot and after a while that can be hard to take. I love assertive woman because I know for a fact, they're interested in me. I don't have to play any of the silly games to figure it out.

Edit: Oh yeah... How you doin'?
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Old 02-21-09, 01:19 PM
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Generally speaking, women do not normally initiate conversation. You are dealing with a rare situation. I think if you were to poll most areas of the country you would not find what you stated.

I think it's great if a woman does initiate the conversation, I just have not seen it very often; at least not in a bar situation.
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Old 02-21-09, 01:36 PM
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Snicklefritz, if you are not comfortable making those moves, you may not want to hook up with a man who likes letting the woman do so. I know it sounds like lame advice, but if there is some guy there who likes making the first or decisive moves my guess is he will find you...

On the other hand you may just need to move in different circles.

Although my best advice fwtw is to try and meet halfway. Why should either party have to do all the work - but that's just me. Different strokes...
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Old 02-21-09, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by UnsafeAlpine View Post

Edit: Oh yeah... How you doin'?
You are SO cute, UA, those CO gals don't know what they're missing!

Hiya Snicklefritz, I haven't seen you here in a while! Being one of the shyer types, I understand what you're going through. However, being shyer, we tend to have better observational skills too - and being ever curious myself, I found if 'the guy' could be the possible source of information, I was much more comfortable initiating conversation by asking a question. BUT I'm not a guy, but I thought I'd throw that in.
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Old 02-21-09, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pgoat View Post
Snicklefritz, if you are not comfortable making those moves, you may not want to hook up with a man who likes letting the woman do so. I know it sounds like lame advice, but if there is some guy there who likes making the first or decisive moves my guess is he will find you...

On the other hand you may just need to move in different circles.

Although my best advice fwtw is to try and meet halfway. Why should either party have to do all the work - but that's just me. Different strokes...

You've got a good point. In my parents' generation, the guys did most of the work. These days though, the girls know they can do the work too and sometimes they do ALL of it. At other times the girls wait for the guys to do something then the guys sit around waiting for the girls to do something and the upshot is that no one does anything!

Like I said, I have no problem being assertive and sometimes I am, but just seems like these days 1/2way is almost necessary...
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Old 02-21-09, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Snicklefritz View Post
Like I said, I have no problem being assertive and sometimes I am, but just seems like these days 1/2way is almost necessary...
I personally find that to be the best way. For me, I'd hate to be in a relationship that is one sided in most regards. Though there are areas where the wife and I assume more responsibility and such.

When we first met, I was definitely more the instigator, but she responded in kind with more than her fair share; had she not, I doubt we'd be in the same apartment right now, some 18 years later.

In the end there's no point worrying too much about what others expect - you have to be true to yourself.

It is pretty interesting that you are seeing that phenomenon though. I wonder what impact baby boomer or other generational demographics will ultimately have on dating/relationship patterns.
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Old 02-21-09, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by overthere View Post
...., I was much more comfortable initiating conversation by asking a question. ...
I agree with this, as an example, if they happened to be bicyclists, ask a question about fixing something on your bike. Guys like to show chicks how to fix stuff. Hopefully from there, you can see a direction.
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Old 02-21-09, 07:20 PM
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Honestly, I've never experienced a woman who does this. Of course, 99% of women seem disgusted that I would have the audacity to speak to them in the first place, so you must take that into account.
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Old 02-21-09, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gman26 View Post
Generally speaking, women do not normally initiate conversation. You are dealing with a rare situation. I think if you were to poll most areas of the country you would not find what you stated.

I think it's great if a woman does initiate the conversation, I just have not seen it very often; at least not in a bar situation.
guess you haven't seen it very often then. i have no problem what-so-ever in initiating conversation with someone i may be interested in. hell, if i dont and wait on the guy, sometimes you miss your chance. i'm not too shy.....
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Old 02-21-09, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
Honestly, I've never experienced a woman who does this. Of course, 99% of women seem disgusted that I would have the audacity to speak to them in the first place, so you must take that into account.
Avoid slapping them first. I've noticed that makes a big difference.
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Old 02-21-09, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by UnsafeAlpine View Post
Avoid slapping them first. I've noticed that makes a big difference.
I don't slap them, but I do grab them by the hair and say, "I'm never letting go." Could that be my problem?
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Old 02-21-09, 07:27 PM
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Old 02-21-09, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
I don't slap them, but I to grab them by the hair and say, "I'm never letting go." Could that be my problem?
Maybe. I'd try talking to them first, and then, if things go well, grab them by the hair.
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Old 02-21-09, 07:28 PM
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Old 02-21-09, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
Honestly, I've never experienced a woman who does this. Of course, 99% of women seem disgusted that I would have the audacity to speak to them in the first place, so you must take that into account.
You mean there aren't any aggressive women in Tennessee?
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