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Old 10-29-11, 11:51 AM
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My Car Drones like this....

Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
To be fair, a similarly equipped Mazda 3 5-door (with the smaller 4 cylinder engine) is probably only about $6-$8K less than the Lexus. That's 20-25% cheaper, not 50% cheaper. Far cheesier of course, which is the case with most Mazdas I've seen. But I do like the styling.
I had the opportunity to drive a 2012 Mazda 3 5-door today, it's on our short list for a third car. I like the styling, the drivetrain, the handling. Unfortunately the interior materials are so cheap and the overall feel of the car so unimpressive that's it's a deal killer. Right afterwards I went and sat in the new Hyundai Veloster which we are also considering (similar price as equipped, about $20K). The Veloster was much closer in quality to my Lexus than the Mazda, and the Lexus is on such a higher plane of car quality that it's a little ridiculous. Driving the CT right after driving the Mazda was like going from a $15K car to a $50K car, not from a $20K car to a $30K car. While the new Mazda Skyactiv (38 mpg why) drivetrain is somewhat impressive, if I have to compromise on the drivetrain or the overall feel and quality, it will be the former that I'd rather give up. I couldn't deal with a car of such pissy build quality with such lowbrow interior materials. Mazda would sell more cars if they simply spent another $200 on higher quality interior plastics. On top of that the Mazda 3 driver's side door felt like it was made out of aluminum foil. I wouldn't want to be sitting in that car when it gets T-boned.

Everything about that Hyundai looks good so far, I have yet to test drive the automatic transmission car. Hope to do that in the next month or two.
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Old 10-30-11, 02:05 PM
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Consumer Reports just cited the Lexus CT200h as the most reliable car sold in America today. I don't know about all that, but mine hasn't broken yet.
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Old 10-30-11, 03:11 PM
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^reliable yes, beautiful, thats questionable
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Old 10-30-11, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kandyredcoi View Post
^reliable yes, beautiful, thats questionable
I like it. And it does get quite a few compliments from total strangers, so I am not alone.
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Old 10-30-11, 03:14 PM
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it doesnt look like a hybrid, thats a good start
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Old 10-30-11, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Consumer Reports just cited the Lexus CT200h as the most reliable car sold in America today. I don't know about all that, but mine hasn't broken yet.
Yes it is reliable just like my Maytag washing machine and just as exciting to drive.
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Old 10-30-11, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
Yes it is reliable just like my Maytag washing machine and just as exciting to drive.
Which part of your bunghole did you pull this analysis from? Have you even driven the car? I've owned dozens of cars (including examples of every major luxury brand) and was in the car business for a decade, which included many driving clinics @ racetracks around the NE, so I know something about driving and cars. I can assure you the CT is fun to drive. That's why I bought the Lexus.

Interestingly the reviews and road tests of this car are quite divergent, with most reviewers liking the car and a few trashing it. Nobody cares about the car magazine weenies of course, least of all Lexus corporate, who is quite pleased with sales results so far that are 50% above their initial goals. The owners all love the car, and the word of mouth on the street regarding the CT is overwhelmingly positive.

The Prius is boring to drive, even if it's perfectly pleasant. That I will confess. The CT is a completely different vehicle.
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Old 10-31-11, 12:55 AM
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im juss messin with you PATENTCAD, i also am quite into motorsports as you can see a few pics of my cars here past and present...if i had to drive a HYBRID, it would have to be the CT as well, had a prius, got rid of it in about 1yr of ownership LOL

i also have driven and OWNED numerous cars so i think i might have a little more than .02 cents to throw into the mix
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Old 10-31-11, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
@v70cat:

I'm getting 38-43 mpg on the Lexus (overall mixed driving), 47-50 mpg on the Prius. Our mpg numbers would probably be 1 mpg higher if we didn't have to climb this hill every day when we come up to the house. Now imagine how my friggin 54 year old body feels cycling up that stupid hill every day.

What is reason for the differnce?
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Old 10-31-11, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Which part of your bunghole did you pull this analysis from? Have you even driven the car? I've owned dozens of cars (including examples of every major luxury brand) and was in the car business for a decade, which included many driving clinics @ racetracks around the NE, so I know something about driving and cars. I can assure you the CT is fun to drive. That's why I bought the Lexus.

Interestingly the reviews and road tests of this car are quite divergent, with most reviewers liking the car and a few trashing it. Nobody cares about the car magazine weenies of course, least of all Lexus corporate, who is quite pleased with sales results so far that are 50% above their initial goals. The owners all love the car, and the word of mouth on the street regarding the CT is overwhelmingly positive.



The Prius is boring to drive, even if it's perfectly pleasant. That I will confess. The CT is a completely different vehicle.
Most Lexus's are design to give you a smooth ride that isolates you from the road. Yes I drove the CT, you do not rember talking about that about a month ago? Guess your memory is going?

The CT is better than a Prius but that does not mean it is a road car.

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Old 10-31-11, 11:00 AM
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The CT is not a performance car. it's a performance luxury hybrid. Whatever that is. A Mini Cooper is more fun to drive, less expensive to buy and absolutely smokes it in z to 60 and 1/4 mile times. Buy a Mini Cooper S and use the money u save to put lots of fun miles on it. Just sayin.

BTW, i love the lexus' i've owned. But i don't confuse them with performance cars.

If you want a performance luxury car try an S63.
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Old 10-31-11, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
Most Lexus's are design to give you a smooth ride that isolates you from the road. Yes I drove the CT, you do not rember talking about that about a month ago? Guess your memory is going?

The CT is better than a Prius but that does not mean it is a road car.
I find most of what I read here forgettable. FWIW, I wasn't that impressed with the CT on the first test drive. Really started liking it on the second test drive. 10 minute test drives can be a tough way to evaluate a car.
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Old 10-31-11, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tom cotter View Post
Buy a Mini Cooper S and use the money u save to put into repairs
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Old 10-31-11, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
What is reason for the differnce?
They are completely different cars. The CT's styling is actually considerably less aero than the Prius, and the car weighs a little more. Mostly the aero disadvantage. I'm loving the friggin car, so all the naysayers can bite me. No Lexus for you.
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Old 10-31-11, 02:13 PM
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By the way, Cooper is about the LEAST reliable car sold in America. The Lexus CT200h is conversely the MOST reliable car sold in America. I have zero point zero zero patience left for Euro car bull**** after owning one Euro car after another that we loved, but that broke too much. They're great if you lease cars for 3 years. If you try to keep the car past 50-100K miles and it's from Europe, then God help you. Bring your friggin checkbook.

Jap cars. You can't beat them for value, quality, reliability. Hell, our 2004 Acura TL went 153,000 miles and had ONE out of warranty repair: a $275 seized rear brake caliper. THAT's reliability.
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Old 10-31-11, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
By the way, Cooper is about the LEAST reliable car sold in America. The Lexus CT200h is conversely the MOST reliable car sold in America. I have zero point zero zero patience left for Euro car bull**** after owning one Euro car after another that we loved, but that broke too much. They're great if you lease cars for 3 years. If you try to keep the car past 50-100K miles and it's from Europe, then God help you. Bring your friggin checkbook.

Jap cars. You can't beat them for value, quality, reliability. Hell, our 2004 Acura TL went 153,000 miles and had ONE out of warranty repair: a $275 seized rear brake caliper. THAT's reliability.
Reliability does not equal performance. Though the Acura does offer some performance.

We have a Rav with 50,000 miles on it and not one problem. My BMW 535 has 38,000 miles and had issues with the fuel system, covered by BMW. The Rav has a lot of room and a v6 so it has power but it does not compare to the BMW in the way it drives. I have driven the BMW on the NJ Turnpike in pouring rain it was amazing how it handled the wet condition and so was much better than the Rav in that situation. The Rav cost over 50% less and is a fine car the BMW is indulgence but it make me happy and I use it for business.

I drove a KIA rental last week it had bluetooth and was not a bad car. Most cars are reliable and the difference in levels of reliability is much smaller.

I am glad that you like the CT and I am sure that it will be very reliable. It will interesting to see how it performs in snow with snow tires.



The CT is a fine car just not a performance car.

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Old 10-31-11, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
The CT is a fine car just not a performance car.
The only person here who is under the impression that anyone ever called the CT a performance car is you. Be sure you dump that Bimmer before the warranty expires.
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Old 10-31-11, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
The only person here who is under the impression that anyone ever called the CT a performance car is you. Be sure you dump that Bimmer before the warranty expires.
I called it a appliance a knock given to a lot of Jap cars.

My Bimmer is covered for another 3 years or 100,000 miles.

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Old 10-31-11, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
By the way, Cooper is about the LEAST reliable car sold in America. The Lexus CT200h is conversely the MOST reliable car sold in America. I have zero point zero zero patience left for Euro car bull**** after owning one Euro car after another that we loved, but that broke too much. They're great if you lease cars for 3 years. If you try to keep the car past 50-100K miles and it's from Europe, then God help you. Bring your friggin checkbook.
+1. The Mini owners who autocross them around here, whether they lease or buy their cars, get rid of them as soon as the warranty is up. They like playing with them, but they do NOT want to pay for the repairs, either.
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Old 10-31-11, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
By the way, Cooper is about the LEAST reliable car sold in America. The Lexus CT200h is conversely the MOST reliable car sold in America. I have zero point zero zero patience left for Euro car bull**** after owning one Euro car after another that we loved, but that broke too much. They're great if you lease cars for 3 years. If you try to keep the car past 50-100K miles and it's from Europe, then God help you. Bring your friggin checkbook.

Jap cars. You can't beat them for value, quality, reliability. Hell, our 2004 Acura TL went 153,000 miles and had ONE out of warranty repair: a $275 seized rear brake caliper. THAT's reliability.
Reliabilty would be about the only reason someone would buy a Lexus hybrid. Unless you're trying to impress the the tuner crowd, that car has zero going for it. Too much money for not enough car. I mean z to 60 in 10.4 seconds, 1/4 mile in 17+ seconds? I think even you, 54 year old body and all, could beat that on your bike...uphill...going backwards. And lets face it, for a whole lot less money you can get the same reliability and performance in a Corolla for a whole lot less money. See, i'm laughing so hard i'm repeating myself.

Go ahead and alter this post and keep talking to yourself.
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Old 10-31-11, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
By the way, Cooper is about the LEAST reliable car sold in America. The Lexus CT200h is conversely the MOST reliable car sold in America. I have zero point zero zero patience left for Euro car bull**** after owning one Euro car after another that we loved, but that broke too much. They're great if you lease cars for 3 years. If you try to keep the car past 50-100K miles and it's from Europe, then God help you. Bring your friggin checkbook.

Jap cars. You can't beat them for value, quality, reliability. Hell, our 2004 Acura TL went 153,000 miles and had ONE out of warranty repair: a $275 seized rear brake caliper. THAT's reliability.
Depends what you buy and how you maintain it. My dad had a Golf TDI for 220k with little more than regular maintenance(he tended to thrash it a bit, so occasionally it would eat a wheel bearing), and before that he had a 1989 Fox for 300k. He also had a VW Corrado G60(one of the least reliable cars ever, bad electrics and a supercharger with a reputation for turning into a grenade) and that lasted him about 9 years with only the sunroof breaking. Heck, my Porsche 356 has 250k+ miles on it, and according to my grandfather, the original owner, it was very reliable as well.

By reputation and capacity for surviving on a deferred maintenance schedule, yeah Lexus, Honda and Toyota beat all the Euro brands. If you are willing to stick to a strict maintenance schedule you CAN have a reliable Euro car. If you want to have a reliable car and not worry about it, don't buy Euro.

I've had my Golf 2.0 for about nine years now though, and it's been nothing but trouble. In fairness I bought it with the bumper pushed back to where the engine was supposed to be and rebuilt it as a preteen in my garage... Maybe i shouldn't be surprised that it's a problem child.

My current DD is a 12 year old Saab 9-3. It's fairly reliable except for some bad window roller pins. Most shops would try to get you to replace the whole regulator when you can actually solve 90% of Saab window problems with a pair of $2.50 roller pins...
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Old 10-31-11, 06:50 PM
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And just for the record, the Europeans have produced some of the most tenacious survivor cars of all time. The Volvo 240, Mercedes 240D(W123), Volvo 144, Volvo P1800, Mercedes 300TD(W123), E30 BMW 3-series, VW Diesels, Saab 900(the old series, from the late 70s-1993), VW aircooled cars, and Volvo 740 all stand on reputations for longevity, and unlike a lot of Japanese cars have a fairly low tendency towards frame rot.
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Old 10-31-11, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BattleRabbit View Post
Depends what you buy and how you maintain it.
Spare me junior. I've been down that road so many times I lost track, and spent far too much money on stupid repairs.

In the end all cars are a crapshoot. Your odds are simply better with Japanese cars. Much, MUCH better. By the way, I've maintained every car I've ever owned by the book. Some simply break more than others.

Saabs, by the way, are arguably the biggest pieces of automotive crap to come out of Europe besides British cars. That's a big reason why they're virtually out of business. I owned three. We LOVED the cars. Gave up on them. Lemons that they were. 'Tenacious survivor cars'. You guys crack me up.

Drink the Kool-Aid you farfegnugen suckers. I used to sell those friggin sleds when half of you idiots were in grade school.
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Old 10-31-11, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Spare me junior. I've been down that road so many times I lost track, and spent far too much money on stupid repairs.

In the end all cars are a crapshoot. Your odds are simply better with Japanese cars. Much, MUCH better. By the way, I've maintained every car I've ever owned by the book. Some simply break more than others.
Right, all cars are a crapshoot. If you calculate your odds solely on whether something on the car is going to break at some point you can almost never come out ahead with a European car. We don't all buy on that. You're welcome to share whatever lessons you feel you've learned, and continue to buy according to your preferences. Now if you'll refrain from calling me junior, I'll refrain from calling you "old fart," because that's really what you're coming off as. This is a nice forum.

In the meantime those of us that don't see the product we want from a Japanese marque will continue to buy other things, even if those things come from Sweden. You can tell me all you want that Japanese cars are better, but if they don't offer a product that appeals to me then I'll continue to not buy what they offer.

As for Saab, all the experience I've had with the 99/900 series cars(1968-93) has been exceptionally good. Not all Saabs are bad. The B and H series engines are stout in NA form, and even in turbo form the weak link is the weird front-clutch transmission.
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Old 10-31-11, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BattleRabbit View Post
If you calculate your odds solely on whether something on the car is going to break at some point you can almost never come out ahead with a European car.
You got that right. I'll go back to Euro cars if and when I ever go back to leasing and turning them every 3 years. That could happen. Don't get me wrong, they make better cars in many respects from a pure design standpoint. You can't argue with a C class Benz or a 3 series Bimmer. But they're too pricey and too unreliable and pricey to repair if you drive a lot of miles like we tend to. Actually I don't drive so many miles, 13-15K annually, but my wife rolls 25K miles a year.

See, here's the deal. Back in the 80's and even much of the 90's, if you loved cars and you wanted a nice one, it was hard to stay away from the Kraut or Swedish cars. The Jap cars weren't quite up to snuff in my view. That started changing over the past decade. All cars are a compromise, and my 2004 Acura TL with navigation (automatic) and the 2007 Acura RDX were the best cars I've ever owned in total when you factor in everything, features performance, reliability, resale value, etc. Now you can get Japanese luxury cars that compete with Euro cars. In some respects they're better, depends what you want in the car I suppose. Nothing feels quite like a Lexus in my view, I like them, I've had two, and I'm also a German car fan. But I do like how Lexus puts their cars together. I like mine, next time I want one that's faster. But this will do for the next 4-6 years.
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