Any interest in a co-op forum?
01-30-23, 08:04 AM
#26
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I have asked for an update. I do know that Tech has been busy behind the scenes dealing with an update that didn't go well.
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02-28-23, 02:30 PM
#28
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My 2 cents, based on personal experience and personal bias.
The shop I work with is probably more what you would call a volunteer shop than a true co-op. We started as an anarchist collective, and now we are a 501(c)(3) staffed by volunteers. Most of our stuff is donated.
That's one of the things I would be interested in talking about - how different local shops are organized and financed.
That's one of the things I would be interested in talking about - how different local shops are organized and financed.
Mostly, I just wanted to drill down on something that you have mentioned in your other thread on the Raleigh Sprite, and your niche in the co-op marketplace.
I volunteered to fill a self created position as donations manager, sometime in about the second year of my involvement. It was obvious to me that donations were a major source of our revenue stream. But a lot of what we were getting at that point was junk...either bicycles that had been long left in some damp corner of the basement, and had thus been damaged by corrosion and aging, or the infamous Walmart/Target/other discount retailer bikes. I think the term you see a lot is BSO's.
I presumed that this contributed to the chaos of the operation, because besides being in a small space, we were also attempting to cater to the homeless community as a do it yourself repair facility. We also had a well meaning, but totally unrealistic, "work for a free bike" program. The results of that were that on any given Saturday, there were guys hanging around, doing essentially nothing useful (except sweeping, which you can't really do well until the shop closed for the day anyway.) And when they finished up on their 20 or 30 hours ( whatever it was), someone on the staff would pick out a BSO and give it to them, Which understandably pissed them off. Those bikes are pretty difficult to maintain for the miles and conditions they experience under a guy living outside in a tent over by the river.
But there was still some semblance of a holdover, from the original formation of the co-op as a co-operative repair facility, for more or less the working class/middle class demographic, who envisioned some kind of shared repair facility, that held and provided the members with some of the more expensive tools, and advice on some of the more complex repair jobs. e.g., we had a cottter press, solidly mounted bench vises, BB threading tool, etc, etc. We even had a fork alignment jig.
The strategy I worked out over a couple of months was to redirect the BSO's to another volunteer org, Cycles For Hope, up in Granite Bay. His operation was exclusively directed toward giving bikes to the unhoused, and running a mobile repair clinic, a couple of times monthly, over at the Loaves and Fishes (free meals, showers, etc, over off North 12th street). And the bikes he gave away, came free, no work required. So it didn't aggravate anyone, because it was free.
And to finally convince the rest of the management group that in the space we had, given our original mission statement, maybe the free bike for work thing had degenerated to the point where it was scaring away the original customer base. (It probably helped that there were a couple of "incidents", with at least one of them resulting in an assault outside the shop). It took quite a while, over a year IIRC, but gradually the people interested in learning about fixing their own bikes returned in greater numbers. This, combined with some advertising solicitation for donations, ( a CL ad is still free), outreach ads in the local News and Review for classes offered, even a lucky break on a local TV odd hours of the early morning local interest show, eventually resulted in an increase in donations of a more durable and repairable nature.
Some of them came in requiring very little, for resale.
But all that was then. The co-op shop was not open , other than to staff, for at least two years. And I honestly have not kept up, other than to visit sporadically to visit some few friends who remain. On those occasions, I still see some relatively good quality bikes that have been donated, over on the sale rack. And since, without the fees for shop use, those and parts sales are the only revenue source, I hope they are at least breaking even. When I left, there was a pretty large reserve fund banked, for just such perilous times. Maybe that's also part of the reason it's still there ?
That's all I wanted to say. There are clear limits to the mission a limited number of volunteers in a small space can accomplish. So if you notice people, (yourself included,) getting burnout, you might want to reconsider whether you are overreaching, given your resource base. And it might pay off to find someone who can spend significant volunteer hours doing donation outreach. Sometimes there are people with a decent bike they don' need, who just can't figure out how to bring it over to you. That was also part of the donations coordinator job.
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02-28-23, 02:47 PM
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,,,we only have one in Sacramento. (I'm not counting Davis, which has had a bike co-op that has undergone many reincarnations from the original Bike Church.) It has undergone significant change with the advent of the Covid pandemic. At various times, I was a volunteer, then member of the management group, teacher of some classes, and the busy Saturday shift manager. Full disclosure : my departure was part of a purge, but most co-op organizations I've experienced, have tended to eat their young, so that was not a surprise.
Mostly, I just wanted to drill down on something that you have mentioned in your other thread on the Raleigh Sprite, and your niche in the co-op marketplace.
I volunteered to fill a self created position as donations manager, sometime in about the second year of my involvement. It was obvious to me that donations were a major source of our revenue stream. But a lot of what we were getting at that point was junk...either bicycles that had been long left in some damp corner of the basement, and had thus been damaged by corrosion and aging, or the infamous Walmart/Target/other discount retailer bikes. I think the term you see a lot is BSO's.
I presumed that this contributed to the chaos of the operation, because besides being in a small space, we were also attempting to cater to the homeless community as a do it yourself repair facility. We also had a well meaning, but totally unrealistic, "work for a free bike" program. The results of that were that on any given Saturday, there were guys hanging around, doing essentially nothing useful (except sweeping, which you can't really do well until the shop closed for the day anyway.) And when they finished up on their 20 or 30 hours ( whatever it was), someone on the staff would pick out a BSO and give it to them, Which understandably pissed them off. Those bikes are pretty difficult to maintain for the miles and conditions they experience under a guy living outside in a tent over by the river.
But there was still some semblance of a holdover, from the original formation of the co-op as a co-operative repair facility, for more or less the working class/middle class demographic, who envisioned some kind of shared repair facility, that held and provided the members with some of the more expensive tools, and advice on some of the more complex repair jobs. e.g., we had a cottter press, solidly mounted bench vises, BB threading tool, etc, etc. We even had a fork alignment jig.
The strategy I worked out over a couple of months was to redirect the BSO's to another volunteer org, Cycles For Hope, up in Granite Bay. His operation was exclusively directed toward giving bikes to the unhoused, and running a mobile repair clinic, a couple of times monthly, over at the Loaves and Fishes (free meals, showers, etc, over off North 12th street). And the bikes he gave away, came free, no work required. So it didn't aggravate anyone, because it was free.
And to finally convince the rest of the management group that in the space we had, given our original mission statement, maybe the free bike for work thing had degenerated to the point where it was scaring away the original customer base. (It probably helped that there were a couple of "incidents", with at least one of them resulting in an assault outside the shop). It took quite a while, over a year IIRC, but gradually the people interested in learning about fixing their own bikes returned in greater numbers. This, combined with some advertising solicitation for donations, ( a CL ad is still free), outreach ads in the local News and Review for classes offered, even a lucky break on a local TV odd hours of the early morning local interest show, eventually resulted in an increase in donations of a more durable and repairable nature.
Some of them came in requiring very little, for resale.
But all that was then. The co-op shop was not open , other than to staff, for at least two years. And I honestly have not kept up, other than to visit sporadically to visit some few friends who remain. On those occasions, I still see some relatively good quality bikes that have been donated, over on the sale rack. And since, without the fees for shop use, those and parts sales are the only revenue source, I hope they are at least breaking even. When I left, there was a pretty large reserve fund banked, for just such perilous times. Maybe that's also part of the reason it's still there ?
That's all I wanted to say. There are clear limits to the mission a limited number of volunteers in a small space can accomplish. So if you notice people, (yourself included,) getting burnout, you might want to reconsider whether you are overreaching, given your resource base. And it might pay off to find someone who can spend significant volunteer hours doing donation outreach. Sometimes there are people with a decent bike they don' need, who just can't figure out how to bring it over to you. That was also part of the donations coordinator job.
Mostly, I just wanted to drill down on something that you have mentioned in your other thread on the Raleigh Sprite, and your niche in the co-op marketplace.
I volunteered to fill a self created position as donations manager, sometime in about the second year of my involvement. It was obvious to me that donations were a major source of our revenue stream. But a lot of what we were getting at that point was junk...either bicycles that had been long left in some damp corner of the basement, and had thus been damaged by corrosion and aging, or the infamous Walmart/Target/other discount retailer bikes. I think the term you see a lot is BSO's.
I presumed that this contributed to the chaos of the operation, because besides being in a small space, we were also attempting to cater to the homeless community as a do it yourself repair facility. We also had a well meaning, but totally unrealistic, "work for a free bike" program. The results of that were that on any given Saturday, there were guys hanging around, doing essentially nothing useful (except sweeping, which you can't really do well until the shop closed for the day anyway.) And when they finished up on their 20 or 30 hours ( whatever it was), someone on the staff would pick out a BSO and give it to them, Which understandably pissed them off. Those bikes are pretty difficult to maintain for the miles and conditions they experience under a guy living outside in a tent over by the river.
But there was still some semblance of a holdover, from the original formation of the co-op as a co-operative repair facility, for more or less the working class/middle class demographic, who envisioned some kind of shared repair facility, that held and provided the members with some of the more expensive tools, and advice on some of the more complex repair jobs. e.g., we had a cottter press, solidly mounted bench vises, BB threading tool, etc, etc. We even had a fork alignment jig.
The strategy I worked out over a couple of months was to redirect the BSO's to another volunteer org, Cycles For Hope, up in Granite Bay. His operation was exclusively directed toward giving bikes to the unhoused, and running a mobile repair clinic, a couple of times monthly, over at the Loaves and Fishes (free meals, showers, etc, over off North 12th street). And the bikes he gave away, came free, no work required. So it didn't aggravate anyone, because it was free.
And to finally convince the rest of the management group that in the space we had, given our original mission statement, maybe the free bike for work thing had degenerated to the point where it was scaring away the original customer base. (It probably helped that there were a couple of "incidents", with at least one of them resulting in an assault outside the shop). It took quite a while, over a year IIRC, but gradually the people interested in learning about fixing their own bikes returned in greater numbers. This, combined with some advertising solicitation for donations, ( a CL ad is still free), outreach ads in the local News and Review for classes offered, even a lucky break on a local TV odd hours of the early morning local interest show, eventually resulted in an increase in donations of a more durable and repairable nature.
Some of them came in requiring very little, for resale.
But all that was then. The co-op shop was not open , other than to staff, for at least two years. And I honestly have not kept up, other than to visit sporadically to visit some few friends who remain. On those occasions, I still see some relatively good quality bikes that have been donated, over on the sale rack. And since, without the fees for shop use, those and parts sales are the only revenue source, I hope they are at least breaking even. When I left, there was a pretty large reserve fund banked, for just such perilous times. Maybe that's also part of the reason it's still there ?
That's all I wanted to say. There are clear limits to the mission a limited number of volunteers in a small space can accomplish. So if you notice people, (yourself included,) getting burnout, you might want to reconsider whether you are overreaching, given your resource base. And it might pay off to find someone who can spend significant volunteer hours doing donation outreach. Sometimes there are people with a decent bike they don' need, who just can't figure out how to bring it over to you. That was also part of the donations coordinator job.
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02-28-23, 05:01 PM
#30
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Thanks for the informative post, 3alarmer.
Our shop is pretty similar to what yours used to be. We were founded as an anarchist collective about 15 years ago, and somehow managed to survive without any formal governing structure despite our rent being quadrupled in the last 3 years. We have no paid staff, so rent is the major expense. There are very few rules, and the main one is that if you think something should be done then you are probably the one who should do it.
Fortunately, during the last few years we significantly increased our capacity to fix up bikes for sale, which has been my main role. Covid was actually very good to us because people were buying bikes like crazy. We didn't really close down during Covid because we were able to move most of our public-facing functions outdoors.
We only have staffing for 2 shifts a week, and the majority of our customers are homeless and low income. But our "work trade" program only requires 5 hours, and the work-trade customers get to pick their own bikes from the bikes available. A lock and whatever they need to get the bike rolling is included with the work-trade bike. Most of the work-trade customers seem pretty happy with the deal, except sometimes they get mad about only being able to get 2 bikes per year.
Right before Covid we moved from a location near the major homeless shelters to a kind of an urban hipster oriented area. Our customer mix requires a less intensive level of social worker skills at the new location, which helps with the sales and the stress level on the volunteers. We aspire to offer classes and help people with project bikes, but it never seems to develop to a sustainable level. The chaotic atmosphere during our regular work shifts probably turns off a lot of people, but I doubt we will completely move away from serving the low-income and homeless because most of our core volunteers see that as the main mission.
We get a mixed stream of bikes donated, and we divide them into sale bikes, work-trade bikes, and bikes to be stripped for parts. Categories vary depending on need - a crappy frankenbike becomes a sale bike if we don't have enough bikes to sell, or a classic Gary Fisher becomes a work trade bike if we have too many sale bikes. We have limited space so we have to process the bikes within a reasonable time, and we rarely solicit donations because we're generally at capacity for processing bikes. We don't get a ton of high end donations, but we get enough vintage stuff to keep it interesting.
Our shop is pretty similar to what yours used to be. We were founded as an anarchist collective about 15 years ago, and somehow managed to survive without any formal governing structure despite our rent being quadrupled in the last 3 years. We have no paid staff, so rent is the major expense. There are very few rules, and the main one is that if you think something should be done then you are probably the one who should do it.
Fortunately, during the last few years we significantly increased our capacity to fix up bikes for sale, which has been my main role. Covid was actually very good to us because people were buying bikes like crazy. We didn't really close down during Covid because we were able to move most of our public-facing functions outdoors.
We only have staffing for 2 shifts a week, and the majority of our customers are homeless and low income. But our "work trade" program only requires 5 hours, and the work-trade customers get to pick their own bikes from the bikes available. A lock and whatever they need to get the bike rolling is included with the work-trade bike. Most of the work-trade customers seem pretty happy with the deal, except sometimes they get mad about only being able to get 2 bikes per year.
Right before Covid we moved from a location near the major homeless shelters to a kind of an urban hipster oriented area. Our customer mix requires a less intensive level of social worker skills at the new location, which helps with the sales and the stress level on the volunteers. We aspire to offer classes and help people with project bikes, but it never seems to develop to a sustainable level. The chaotic atmosphere during our regular work shifts probably turns off a lot of people, but I doubt we will completely move away from serving the low-income and homeless because most of our core volunteers see that as the main mission.
We get a mixed stream of bikes donated, and we divide them into sale bikes, work-trade bikes, and bikes to be stripped for parts. Categories vary depending on need - a crappy frankenbike becomes a sale bike if we don't have enough bikes to sell, or a classic Gary Fisher becomes a work trade bike if we have too many sale bikes. We have limited space so we have to process the bikes within a reasonable time, and we rarely solicit donations because we're generally at capacity for processing bikes. We don't get a ton of high end donations, but we get enough vintage stuff to keep it interesting.
Last edited by albrt; 03-01-23 at 12:15 AM.
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02-28-23, 06:01 PM
#31
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If you're in the area on a Wednesday evening or Sunday morning, drop on by. You might even enjoy it.
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03-01-23, 03:20 PM
#32
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I'm all for a Co-op forum. Seems like the kind of safe space where I could spitball ideas about batch painting 100 bike frames orange, and such...
05-30-23, 09:09 PM
#33
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Bump. I am still interested in a co-op forum, but I doubt it will ever get traction because the user suggestions forum gets no traffic.
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