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Old 03-25-08, 05:18 AM
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Script
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Adding a Forum?

How does one go about getting a new forum added? I believe it's time to add a Bikelane, Bikeway, Facilities Advocacy forum under Advocacy and Safety. Trying to have a rational dialogue about the subject is not possible now when any question is attacked by the VC Advocates.
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Old 03-25-08, 09:04 AM
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Well, you've done the first step--asking .

There certainly are a lot of heated debates in A & S, which is why the VC subforum was set up.

Eventually one of the Admins will come by and take a look at your post, and I am sure they will mull it over.

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Old 03-25-08, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Script View Post
How does one go about getting a new forum added? I believe it's time to add a Bikelane, Bikeway, Facilities Advocacy forum under Advocacy and Safety. Trying to have a rational dialogue about the subject is not possible now when any question is attacked by the VC Advocates.
I thought they started the VC sub-subforum so that facility advocates could have their one-sided discussions in the regular A&S subforum. Is this not working for you?
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Old 03-25-08, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
I thought they started the VC sub-subforum so that facility advocates could have their one-sided discussions in the regular A&S subforum. Is this not working for you?
Who are you talking about? Evidently you are a staunch VC'er.

If you read my posts, you'll find that I support compromise and common sense.

What is your agenda?
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Old 03-25-08, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Script View Post
Who are you talking about? Evidently you are a staunch VC'er.

If you read my posts, you'll find that I support compromise and common sense.

What is your agenda?
I don't really have an agenda. Frankly, I don't really care and I wish I had never written that post. Bicycle advocacy is dead in America, as far as I can tell. Sorry to hijack your thread. Good luck on getting your subforum.
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Old 03-25-08, 05:47 PM
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It's not dead, just kind of mired in right now and suffering anomie. Just hit the report button with VC topics outside VC and we'll move them, if they truly are a VC topic, and not just a slight short deviation into VC land.

Originally Posted by Roody View Post
I don't really have an agenda. Frankly, I don't really care and I wish I had never written that post. Bicycle advocacy is dead in America, as far as I can tell. Sorry to hijack your thread. Good luck on getting your subforum.
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Old 03-25-08, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
It's not dead, just kind of mired in right now and suffering anomie.
That's because HH is visiting in P & R .

In the meantime, how about Script's suggestion for a Bikelane, Bikeway, Facilities Advocacy forum?

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Old 03-25-08, 06:01 PM
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What is the point of setting up ever more narrow echo chambers of opinion?

I am not much of a fan of A&S. It seems rife with trolls and is a dreadful advocate for cycling. If it serves as a sandbox to have the same old fight in, I would just let people have at it.
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Old 03-25-08, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by barba View Post
What is the point of setting up ever more narrow echo chambers of opinion?

I am not much of a fan of A&S. It seems rife with trolls and is a dreadful advocate for cycling. If it serves as a sandbox to have the same old fight in, I would just let people have at it.
It's a source of great fun for moderators .

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Old 03-25-08, 07:42 PM
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I think a lot of novice riders come to this forum looking for practical advice on safe ways to ride their new bikes. Worries about safety are one of the main concerns that hold people back from doing more cycling, be it for recreation, fitness or transportation. I bet that a lot of new members here go to the A&S forum first, before they go anywhere else. I know I did, years ago.

But what a newbie will find in A&S are mainly a lot of repetitious quibbles about how great or how terrible bike lanes are. I know that issue is important on some level, and a lot of articulate people have fun debating it. I don't think we should (or even could) get rid of this stuff. But I also don't think it should be the first thing that newbies run across when they're looking for serious information about keeping themselves or their kids safe on bikes. I vote that we should make an "Advocacy" forum or a "Bicycle Philosophy" forum for the regulars to play in as they do now. But I'd also like to see a separate "Safety" forum that newbies can come to and learn about riding bikes.

Here's an example of what I mean. I recently started a thread on A&S called something like "Practical Tips for Riding on Snow and Ice". I specifically requested that nobody argue or rant, just pass along tips from their own experience, as well as any questions they might have. This thread got a lot of replies that I think would be beneficial to anyone who wanted to try winter riding for the first time.

So, I guess I do have an agenda after all. I think that there should be two forums. One should be a playground (as somebody else said) for people to argue about BL and VC and all the other ABCs. But the main forum should be a Safety forum, geared toward helping cyclists ride safely in whatever facilities or non-facilities they find.
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Old 03-25-08, 07:47 PM
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So, kind of a

"Arguments over trivial crap forum"

versus

"Stuff to keep you safe out there forum"

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Old 03-25-08, 07:49 PM
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I agree Roody.

The forums in general are a fantastic resource and a great advocate for cycling as a part of ones lifestyle. A&S would lead you to believe that you will be killed. I doubt it is all that reassuring to the new cyclist that stumbles onto it.
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Old 03-25-08, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by East Hill View Post
So, kind of a

"Arguments over trivial crap forum"

versus

"Stuff to keep you safe out there forum"

East Hill
Yes, thanks. I tend to use too many words.
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Old 03-25-08, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by barba View Post
I agree Roody.

The forums in general are a fantastic resource and a great advocate for cycling as a part of ones lifestyle. A&S would lead you to believe that you will be killed. I doubt it is all that reassuring to the new cyclist that stumbles onto it
.
Yes. Either you will be killed, or you will become so angry that you will kill the next bike advocate that you see.
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Old 03-25-08, 09:42 PM
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Roody, that's why we created the VC Subforum, so that there would be a place for the "Great Debate", theoretically leaving A&S for nonVC Argument topics.
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
I think a lot of novice riders come to this forum looking for practical advice on safe ways to ride their new bikes. Worries about safety are one of the main concerns that hold people back from doing more cycling, be it for recreation, fitness or transportation. I bet that a lot of new members here go to the A&S forum first, before they go anywhere else. I know I did, years ago.

But what a newbie will find in A&S are mainly a lot of repetitious quibbles about how great or how terrible bike lanes are. I know that issue is important on some level, and a lot of articulate people have fun debating it. I don't think we should (or even could) get rid of this stuff. But I also don't think it should be the first thing that newbies run across when they're looking for serious information about keeping themselves or their kids safe on bikes. I vote that we should make an "Advocacy" forum or a "Bicycle Philosophy" forum for the regulars to play in as they do now. But I'd also like to see a separate "Safety" forum that newbies can come to and learn about riding bikes.

Here's an example of what I mean. I recently started a thread on A&S called something like "Practical Tips for Riding on Snow and Ice". I specifically requested that nobody argue or rant, just pass along tips from their own experience, as well as any questions they might have. This thread got a lot of replies that I think would be beneficial to anyone who wanted to try winter riding for the first time.

So, I guess I do have an agenda after all. I think that there should be two forums. One should be a playground (as somebody else said) for people to argue about BL and VC and all the other ABCs. But the main forum should be a Safety forum, geared toward helping cyclists ride safely in whatever facilities or non-facilities they find.
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Old 03-25-08, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by barba View Post
What is the point of setting up ever more narrow echo chambers of opinion?

I am not much of a fan of A&S. It seems rife with trolls and is a dreadful advocate for cycling. If it serves as a sandbox to have the same old fight in, I would just let people have at it.
I agree with you, barba, but I'd also like to point out that we've had some small improvements since the VC subforum was created. Remember that the more people give A&S a chance and participate, the more diluted the trolls will become.

We're not going to split A&S any further. If bike lane/bike facilities/bikeway threads are being majorly hijacked by passionate supporters of VC, please report them. We will deal with it.
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