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Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

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Old 11-15-16, 08:27 PM   #1
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Flevotrike frame

Revision: Flevobike. Want to build for 200lb rider. What size and type steel tubing should I use to create the frame? Am leaning toward 16 gauge 1018 cold drawn steel for easy form and weld. Want to create full suspension, and crank adjustment screws for 1/8" chain, and adjustable seat position and incline mounts. Using 8 speed Shimano Nexus hub. Disc brakes on both wheels.

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Old 11-16-16, 11:00 AM   #2
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can you provide a link to the type of frame you want to build? What kind of welding can you do? TIG/MIG/Gas?
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Old 11-16-16, 12:26 PM   #3
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A few comments from the recumbent service guy at work for decades and a hobby builder.


Rim brakes on the two out board wheels mean a bunch of frame material doing nothing but supporting the brake mech. There's a reason that disk brakes are so often used on trikes.


The cost of frame tubing will be a small portion of the total. Consider using a stronger steel. 4130 is available in so many diameters and gages, is quite weldable and will help reduce what will already be a boat anchor of a bike.


Suspension is a great goal. In application it has many issues and costs. Weight, tracking flex when cornering, space/dimensional needs that impact rider placement and fit, and general component cost/availability (forks and shocks). Running larger profile tires can get a bit of the comfy goals of suspension with a far lighter and serviceable machine. Also the seat design enters here WRT shock damping.


I assume you are riding fairly level terrain with the choice of a limited gear range that the IGHs have. I would strongly reconsider this aspect. Trikes are dogs when it comes to climbing or getting up to speed. Even common driveway or side walk ramps can seem steep.


Your project is a big and complex one even with streamlining to more common design choices. Do your homework and expect to get part way along and suffer the AH HA moment a few times in a number of places. Andy.
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Old 11-20-16, 07:53 PM   #4
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I'm leaning toward this design. I'm a novice TIG welder, using Makerspace TIG with help from experienced TIG welding guy.

VENDETTA V20 | CRUZBIKE

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can you provide a link to the type of frame you want to build? What kind of welding can you do? TIG/MIG/Gas?
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Old 11-20-16, 08:07 PM   #5
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Andy, I'm reconsidering the trike in favor of a two wheel machine.

I like hydraulic disc brakes--and the sliding Aluminum tubes used on Cruzbike. But my understanding is that's it's much more difficult to weld aluminum. Recumbent needs better suspension because rider cannot stand on pedals to reduce shock. Cruzbike uses front and rear shocks. I like somehow suspending the recumbent seat. Here's a brilliant trike seat design:

COMFORIDER_HOME

I'm on sloping terrain; first half of my 6 mile circuit is uphill. I like the climbing ability of Cruzbike.

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A few comments from the recumbent service guy at work for decades and a hobby builder.


Rim brakes on the two out board wheels mean a bunch of frame material doing nothing but supporting the brake mech. There's a reason that disk brakes are so often used on trikes.


The cost of frame tubing will be a small portion of the total. Consider using a stronger steel. 4130 is available in so many diameters and gages, is quite weldable and will help reduce what will already be a boat anchor of a bike.


Suspension is a great goal. In application it has many issues and costs. Weight, tracking flex when cornering, space/dimensional needs that impact rider placement and fit, and general component cost/availability (forks and shocks). Running larger profile tires can get a bit of the comfy goals of suspension with a far lighter and serviceable machine. Also the seat design enters here WRT shock damping.


I assume you are riding fairly level terrain with the choice of a limited gear range that the IGHs have. I would strongly reconsider this aspect. Trikes are dogs when it comes to climbing or getting up to speed. Even common driveway or side walk ramps can seem steep.


Your project is a big and complex one even with streamlining to more common design choices. Do your homework and expect to get part way along and suffer the AH HA moment a few times in a number of places. Andy.
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Old 11-20-16, 10:37 PM   #6
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if you can tig, you want to be using .035 wall 4130. Probably.
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Old 11-21-16, 08:38 AM   #7
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Another bike builder recommended .064 16 gauge 4130, 1.5" square. Is that too thick? Comforider builder used 1.5" round aluminum tube for his frame.

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if you can tig, you want to be using .035 wall 4130. Probably.
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Old 11-21-16, 04:54 PM   #8
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snip Recumbent needs better suspension because rider cannot stand on pedals to reduce shock. snip.
I don't get this statement. Very few recumbents have suspension that i have seen.
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Old 11-21-16, 08:12 PM   #9
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Another bike builder recommended .064 16 gauge 4130, 1.5" square. Is that too thick? Comforider builder used 1.5" round aluminum tube for his frame.
that's a lot of steel. Square tubing is a waste of material, unless you need the shape
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Old 11-21-16, 11:22 PM   #10
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A friend, 20 years ago brought back a 2 wheel lean steered FWD Flevo bike .

being so hard to master , It would be quite- jump on and ride off- Proof..

+ general 'recumbentcy'..
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Old 11-22-16, 12:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
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I don't get this statement. Very few recumbents have suspension that i have seen.

This one of the short falls of recumbents. Either the rider gets bounced a bunch with typical narrow profile tires (with thick sidewalls), wider tires are used with their added weight, seats are slung/webbed or heavily padded, or actual suspension is used. Once again I'll say there's a reason that the vast majority of bikes have rider placement allowing weight to be shared by hands, feet and butt. Andy
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Old 11-22-16, 12:14 AM   #12
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Thanks for that input. Sounds like I should look at round tubing. The 1.5" square tubing is used by Flevobike factory in Netherlands. I believe it provides elastomeric flexion in one plane.

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that's a lot of steel. Square tubing is a waste of material, unless you need the shape
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Old 11-22-16, 12:20 AM   #13
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Good points, Andy. The butt is a real sore point. I like the wider area of support of recumbent seats. Cruzbike actually has an optional 1# full profile recumbent carbon seat.

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This one of the short falls of recumbents. Either the rider gets bounced a bunch with typical narrow profile tires (with thick sidewalls), wider tires are used with their added weight, seats are slung/webbed or heavily padded, or actual suspension is used. Once again I'll say there's a reason that the vast majority of bikes have rider placement allowing weight to be shared by hands, feet and butt. Andy
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Old 11-22-16, 12:24 AM   #14
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I'm working on a center steered design that will be more stable at low and high speed. Thus easier to control.

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A friend, 20 years ago brought back a 2 wheel lean steered FWD Flevo bike .

being so hard to master , It would be quite- jump on and ride off- Proof..

+ general 'recumbentcy'..
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Old 11-22-16, 09:14 AM   #15
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Human Powered Machines, a builder , in Eugene Oregon, has built some front wheel steered and powered trikes..


Flevo bike is a NL company.. started by a Mechanical engineering professor at a University..

considering traveling to learn from other builders?
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Old 11-22-16, 11:18 AM   #16
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I'd love to visit Germany and Netherlands. My immediate focus is on prototype fabrication. Ultimately my goal is to mass produce my HPV designs.

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Human Powered Machines, a builder , in Eugene Oregon, has built some front wheel steered and powered trikes..


Flevo bike is a NL company.. started by a Mechanical engineering professor at a University..

considering traveling to learn from other builders?
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Old 11-22-16, 11:26 AM   #17
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I checked weight per linear foot for 4130 1.5" .035 tubing: only .5476 lbs per LF! Comforider inventor told me his trike weighs 25 kg! Too heavy for efficient climbing.

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if you can tig, you want to be using .035 wall 4130. Probably.
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Old 11-22-16, 11:44 AM   #18
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Fork design

Created a fork design which will allow use of 29" narrow or wide tires. Front lower fork will have crank tube welded directly on the round end. That will help keep wheelbase and overall length down. My design looks like a chopper or low rider, with WB of 5.5 feet and overall length of 8 feet. Must have a quick release rod in tube connection between front and rear sections for easy transport.
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Old 11-22-16, 05:30 PM   #19
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Efficient climbing of a cargo Trike ? Pre worry any? You can gear it super low because you wont fall over ..
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Old 11-22-16, 05:56 PM   #20
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Have decided to lose a wheel, and create a bike that's stable on two wheels. As I wrote above, directional stability at low and high speed. Ease of balance is a problem with existing Flevobike and Cruzbike designs.

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Efficient climbing of a cargo Trike ? Pre worry any? You can gear it super low because you wont fall over ..
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Old 05-09-17, 10:34 PM   #21
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Crankshell and underseat steering pivot joints

I've received .058 4130 steel tubes. Need to source crankshell which will be TIG welded to front end of adjustable sliding tube assembly (front wheel drive). The smaller tube will slide inside larger tube, with a 1.25" spring clamp around larger tube to secure small 1.125" tube inside.

Underseat steering joint with angle of about 45 degrees. I need the bearing tube which will be TIG welded to rear portion of frame which supports the seat. Where can I source a large steering tube with strong bearings (mountain bike?)? The whole front portion of frame will pivot on the internal bearings. Underseat steering with legs (like a Flevobike) and weight shift. Handlebars lateral to seat on both sides. Custom handlebar supplier?

Will use custom lugs to connect underseat steering tube to bottom tube and upper crank tube. Henry James?
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Old 05-09-17, 11:20 PM   #22
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custom lugs are not really available. I'm having a lot of trouble visualizing what you want. As far as steerers go, is the loading really the same as a fork? I.e., is there a lot of radial load on the bottom race and not so much on the top? If so, you can get 44mm steerers and head tubes from Paragon Machine Works. If you need symmetry, you probably want to fabricate something.
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Old 05-10-17, 12:54 AM   #23
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custom lugs are not really available. I'm having a lot of trouble visualizing what you want. As far as steerers go, is the loading really the same as a fork? I.e., is there a lot of radial load on the bottom race and not so much on the top? If so, you can get 44mm steerers and head tubes from Paragon Machine Works. If you need symmetry, you probably want to fabricate something.
See joint under seat: https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/gre...r-bicycle.html

Here's an image of upper front crank with slide adjustment. Recumbent Bikes | CRUZBIKE

My design uses elements of flevobike and cruzbike. Underseat steering plus adjustable upper front crank.
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Old 05-10-17, 07:21 AM   #24
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the under seat steering doesn't require much of a pivot, the steerer can be whatever you want from a normal bike. 44mm might be nice because it would fit into your boom tube better, but it really depends on your fork.
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Old 05-10-17, 07:59 AM   #25
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Thanks unterhausen. Will check out 44mm tube from Paragon Machine Works. Fork should be able to accommodate 700c tire and wheel up to 2" wide. There is no conventional head tube. Look at the flevobike photos. The underseat pivot carries the entire weight of the rider plus road shocks--so is under a lot of stress.

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