Hi, how do small shop framebuilders/bicycle fabricators deal with the possibility of a client/customer injuring (or worse) themselves on one of your creations? I moved to Portland, OR with the intent to start building recumbent bicycles one day. I was renting a house with a garage/shop out back. I planned (plan?) to work with carbon fiber. Recently I was giving away a bike to a young person (college age) in the neighborhood and I set him up for a test ride. He took a very long time in coming back and what had seemed like a good idea at first suddenly got scary. What if he had gotten hurt?! I don't know this person, they are a checker at the supermarket my wife and I go to and we are impressed with his work ethic and overall presentation. Well it turned out he only got a flat. Phew. But it got me wondering about what I can do in the future to protect myself legally, if I give this bike away (its still available btw) or if I eventually get a small (really small) bicycle building business going. Asking someone to sign some kind of waiver seems weird. I've bought bikes off people and never have they wanted any kind of written assurance that I wouldn't turn around and sue them. But I'm not the kind to run to a lawyer the minute something bad happens. Thoughts?

If you exchange product, whether for profit or barter, you are a seller. If you made said product you are also a manufacturer. And, yes, liability precedent has established that both sellers and manufacturers are in the liability lane. How one feels about their obligations to their customers not the same always as how the courts will feel.


This is a touchy subject for many. Touchy because they think that their few sales/frames/repairs don't fall under liability laws, that they won't ever do wrong, that their customers (or do I mean friends...) are "good" people who don't have survivors that loved the customer and were financially/emotionally dependent on them.


If I were a buyer of a custom frame I would want to know if the builder was a real business, was permited/licensed/insured. Not so much for the chance to have my wife sue after I crash and die on the new custom frame but because these business aspects suggest a greater view of the builder's place in the world. It also suggests that the builder has a reasonable business plan and is more likely to be around in the future. I fully expect this peace of mind to add to the price of the frame.


This cost for a hopefully never needed claim coverage (be it personal or property) is a real part of doing business. To avoid this cost is in my opinion short sighted and not very responsible.


My views of the need for liability insurance have evolved over the years. One time I was of the mind "it won't happen to me". Now I know better. Andy.

I am looking into this for a non bike product. I don't know much yet, but so far if I go much beyond where I am I think I will need to do the following:

Set up an LLC
Liability insurance
More umbrella coverage for house, etc
Lawyer time for setting up the wording for conditions etc to put in place as condition of sale

Beyond that I am researching what happens if I do try to do a small manufacturing business and then end it. I have gotten the impression that you need to keep liability insurance going even if you are no longer a going concern.

again this is very basic research and I could be completely off, so any one do your own research

liability insurance is why I'm not a framebuilder. An LLC seems to be pretty useless for an individual builder, even companies bigger than a sole proprietorship have lost the "corporate veil" in liability suits. But if you are an LLC that is really just a sole proprietorship, then it offers very little protection. In the U.S., we can get insurance issued through the bike industry. There is an agent that specializes in it, but any insurance agent can get a policy underwritten by the same company. The issue in my mind is that it's "claims made" insurance. So if your product may fail in 30 years, then you either had to continue having insurance every year, or your assets are on the line.

Waivers and giving the bikes away really aren't very good protection.

Of course things may be different in a country with out so many personal injury, no money down, contingency lawyers.

I should, perhaps, be more clear. I haven't built any bikes yet. The bike I was trying to give away is a Schwinn I bought from a co-op a few years ago. I've never sold or given a bike to anyone before and am unclear as to what liability I might have faced if anything untoward might have happened to someone testing it. I have made extensive changes to it from when I bought it. I am of course sure that it is safe, but...

I wouldn't be concerned about reselling/donating a used bike to a charity/non profit or for that mater to a privet person as long as in your skill set you haven't noticed any possible dangers/defects with the bike. If you do see issues with the bike then I believe your are legally obligated to disclose them, independent on how you're transferring the bike or "profiting" from it. Andy.

selling used bikes is fine. All product liability is on the manufacturer

Product liability is something of a numbers game. Folks who make or sell thousands of anything, face a real risk that lightning may strike.

But a small frame builder doesn't have that much stuff out there, so his exposure is pretty limited. That doesn't mean he shouldn't take steps to limit his exposure. Insurance is an obvious answer, but there are other things, like forming a corporation, and keeping the bulk of your assets out of it.

Unlike Andrew S. I don't fret over things like licensing (who licenses framebuilders anyway) or insurance on things like this. I make decisions based on reputation and observable quality. As a business owner, I never carrier product liability on what I manufactured or imported, though my general policy covered goods where I was simply a wholesaler.

I was sued twice. The first case was dropped, the second time I had to defend which was frustrating to say the least because the product involved wasn't from me, but it's not possible to prove a negative. In the end, my lawyer negotiated a small settlement. I refused it and offered 1/10th of that, and at the last minute they took it.

I have a different take on liability insurance, and feel that those who walk the high wire without a net are going to be more careful.

But, the the OP, talk to a lawyer about ways to shelter your assets, so if worst comes to worst, your losses are limited. BTW - product liability for bike shops and mechanics is surprisingly inexpensive. For example, if the shop has a general Business Owners Policy, product liability is included along with the general liability (trip and fall) at little or no additional Premium. However, many policies (like mine) will exclude products you manufacture or import directly (in the USA an importer is considered equivalent to a manufacturer for these purposes).

Not at all true.

First of all, lawyers tend to sue everybody in the chain. Secondly, it depends on how they frame the suit. For example the suit may allege that the injury was caused by a lapse by the mechanic, ie. a wheel fell off because it was installed incorrectly.