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Is this ti frame weld OK?

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Is this ti frame weld OK?

Old 07-01-19, 07:31 PM
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stringmaster
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Is this ti frame weld OK?

The bike is a Giordana Titanium AL from around 1995. Frame is said to be by Litespeed. Is the drive side weld between the chair stay and dropout OK? There is a circumferential hairline crack. See photos.
Thanks
Jim

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Old 07-01-19, 07:54 PM
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unterhausen
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That's going to be an interesting failure, maybe soon. seems like it could be welded
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Old 07-01-19, 08:31 PM
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njkayaker
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It's not the same on both sides.

(On another note the hanger is integrated, which some might not see as ideal.)

Last edited by njkayaker; 07-01-19 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 07-01-19, 08:40 PM
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Nessism
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There is a crack where the "bullet" tube cap is welded to the stay. Looks repairable.
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Old 07-02-19, 06:13 AM
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dsaul
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Its definitely broken. If it were mine, I'd weld it and keep riding it until it eventually failed. It would be a difficult repair to do correctly, since there is no way to clean the inside and Ti needs to be super clean to prevent contamination.
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Old 07-02-19, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
(On another note the hanger is integrated, which some might not see as ideal.)
As long as it's not AL or CF it should be fine. You can straighten Ti or steel if it gets bent.
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Old 07-02-19, 11:27 AM
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Your Ti welding specialist can take care of that,

filing a V where the separation is, for clean surface, then, leaving the built up bead will be fine..
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Old 07-02-19, 11:44 AM
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CliffordK
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Most interesting failure. My guess is there is a plug that inserts into the tube. With other materials, a joint like that would be epoxy bonded, but I assume yours was welded.

It should be reasonably stable, but I fear that the geometry of putting the entire load on the seatstays would tend to pull the plug out, and risk a catastrophic failure on the road.

https://www.ticycles.com in Portland does frame repairs. Perhaps other titanium frame builders too. It is worth contacting them before you scrap the frame. Or, sell it with full disclosure of requiring repairs.

Is that a 700c/650c(24") frame?
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Old 07-02-19, 11:52 AM
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I'm guessing that would be a straightforward repair for any builder doing ti. Fietsbob suggests filing a "V". I was thinking a clean hacksaw cut. This stay-end is a bullet plug that inserts into the chainstay. There's plenty of material there. If the crack continues, the dropout would be free to move back (limited by the "spring" of the seatstay) but not move vertically or side-to-side until the bullet has slipped fully out of the chainstay. (I'm guessing there is a 1/2" of plug or more in there.)

Edit: Clifford,. I highly doubt anything catastrophic will happen. I've broken chainstays behind the support while riding and just noticed a small difference in feel until I looked down and saw the chainstay swinging a little. Rode home with no issues. (Granted a flat 2 miles.) Bikes have a lot of redundancy in that area. The left side alone is enough to keep things together. Then you have the hub and right seatstay. So all the OP needs to do to avoid the worst is to be a little attentive. Feel an change? Look down before diving into a corner and doing a hard sprint out.

Ben

Last edited by 79pmooney; 07-02-19 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 07-02-19, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
(I'm guessing there is a 1/2" of plug or more in there.)
I would imagine those parts are custom machined by the manufacture. For bonded, one would like a long overlap, but for welded, it really needs to be just larger than the weld, and perhaps heat affected area. Just some back support for the weld and helping with alignment. It could also be hollowed out.

It may well be easier to weld without a huge block behind the weld.

But, I'm guessing closer to 1/4" overlap, but don't want to cut open a frame to see.

Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Edit: Clifford,. I highly doubt anything catastrophic will happen.
You may be right, catastrophic may not be the right word. wheel rubbing on chainstays/seatstays/brakes?

Still, with a known fault, it is something I'd ignore as it could get worse while riding. Also, a quick repair becomes a nightmare repair.
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Old 07-03-19, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I'm guessing that would be a straightforward repair for any builder doing ti. Fietsbob suggests filing a "V". I was thinking a clean hacksaw cut. This stay-end is a bullet plug that inserts into the chainstay. There's plenty of material there. If the crack continues, the dropout would be free to move back (limited by the "spring" of the seatstay) but not move vertically or side-to-side until the bullet has slipped fully out of the chainstay. (I'm guessing there is a 1/2" of plug or more in there.)

Edit: Clifford,. I highly doubt anything catastrophic will happen. I've broken chainstays behind the support while riding and just noticed a small difference in feel until I looked down and saw the chainstay swinging a little. Rode home with no issues. (Granted a flat 2 miles.) Bikes have a lot of redundancy in that area. The left side alone is enough to keep things together. Then you have the hub and right seatstay. So all the OP needs to do to avoid the worst is to be a little attentive. Feel an change? Look down before diving into a corner and doing a hard sprint out.

Ben
This! Now if this were a fork end... that would be rather different. Although I have suffered a total crack through of a front drop out between the blade end and the axle face/slot and only noticed a odd bit or wondering about as I was just starting up. Glad it wasn't at speed. Andy
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Old 07-04-19, 12:06 PM
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Thanks to all for the info.
Litespeed has confirmed it is a Litespeed Catalyst frame. They are not interested in fixing it, perhaps because it is rebranded.
It is a 700C 55 cm frame.
I am in Iowa City, Iowa and have not found local anyone who can weld Ti. Cheapest price so far for a ship out repair is $200.
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF SOMEONE IN THE MID WEST WHO CAN REPAIR IT?
Jim
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Old 07-04-19, 12:28 PM
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$200 doesn't seem terrible. Have you tried asking at local bike shops? In central Iowa there is Jeff Bock, a builder. He would probably know someone that does it. There are a great deal of welding shops in Iowa, surely there must be someone locally?
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Old 07-04-19, 01:00 PM
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I wonder if you could jump industries. Someone around McDonnell Douglas could do the repairs. St. Louis?

Nonetheless, if you have to ship the frame, the cost won't be significantly different to ship one state over vs shipping across the country.

"Bike Flights" is a service that essentially provides commercial shipping rates to individuals for shipping bike related stuff, and can save a bit on shipping. I think there was a discussion about another competitor, but don't remember who.

I'm finding a few lists of titanium bicycle frame builders online, but finding them listed by state is more problematic.
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