Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Framebuilders
Reload this Page >

Rocker dropouts

Notices
Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

Rocker dropouts

Old 02-10-20, 01:51 PM
  #1  
BigPoser
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
BigPoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 554

Bikes: BAHL Giro, BAHL Uno, BAHL GVL, Cuevas

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rocker dropouts

Have a project coming up that will use Rocker drop outs. I've been studying them and as I'm still pretty new to this, I've been trying understand just how to set these up in a fixture. What are used to align the dropouts? There doesn't seem like a way to do it without the inserts but even then the DS is threaded. I'm certainly missing something, but not sure what it is.

Info on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Brandon
BigPoser is offline  
Old 02-10-20, 03:24 PM
  #2  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 19,101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 164 Times in 132 Posts
I don't think there is a way absent the inserts. If you are worried about heat control, put a wet rag around them
unterhausen is offline  
Old 02-10-20, 08:38 PM
  #3  
dsaul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,261
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 340 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 75 Posts
You need to use the inserts with a dummy axle installed. The drive side being threaded is not an issue. It will be obvious when you have the parts and the dummy axle in hand. In order to align the dropouts with each other, I push the rockers all the way forward with the dummy axle installed and only tightened on one side. I set the dummy axle on a 123 block on a relatively flat surface and align the chainstay ends of the frame part with the flat surface. When the chainstay ends are aligned and the dummy axle is flat on the 123 block, I tighten the other side of the dummy axle to hold them in alignment.

You only need the inserts in place until you have the dropouts tacked. With TIG, it doesn't effect the inserts at all. A torch might discolor the anodizing. The inserts are the cheap part, so you could buy a sacrificial set.

BTW- buy the titanium bolt kit with the dropouts. The steel ones that come with the dropouts are not capable of withstanding the necessary torque to prevent slipping of the insert without rounding out the hex in the bolt.
dsaul is offline  
Old 02-11-20, 11:01 AM
  #4  
BigPoser
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
BigPoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 554

Bikes: BAHL Giro, BAHL Uno, BAHL GVL, Cuevas

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by dsaul View Post
You need to use the inserts with a dummy axle installed. The drive side being threaded is not an issue. It will be obvious when you have the parts and the dummy axle in hand. In order to align the dropouts with each other, I push the rockers all the way forward with the dummy axle installed and only tightened on one side. I set the dummy axle on a 123 block on a relatively flat surface and align the chainstay ends of the frame part with the flat surface. When the chainstay ends are aligned and the dummy axle is flat on the 123 block, I tighten the other side of the dummy axle to hold them in alignment.

You only need the inserts in place until you have the dropouts tacked. With TIG, it doesn't effect the inserts at all. A torch might discolor the anodizing. The inserts are the cheap part, so you could buy a sacrificial set.

BTW- buy the titanium bolt kit with the dropouts. The steel ones that come with the dropouts are not capable of withstanding the necessary torque to prevent slipping of the insert without rounding out the hex in the bolt.
Thanks dsaul! I do have a CS fixture that I'm sure will help. I also have Anvil dummy axles and I assume they'll work for this.
BigPoser is offline  
Old 02-11-20, 11:32 AM
  #5  
dsaul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,261
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 340 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 75 Posts
Originally Posted by BigPoser View Post
Thanks dsaul! I do have a CS fixture that I'm sure will help. I also have Anvil dummy axles and I assume they'll work for this.
The dummy axle has to match the dropouts (thru-axle or QR) and the intended hub (QR 135, 12x142, 12x148, etc). If you only have QR dummy axles, you could buy a sacrificial set of the cheaper silver QR inserts and switch them out for the Thru-axle version after the build is finished. The QR 135 and 12x142 are interchangeable.
dsaul is offline  
Old 02-11-20, 11:52 AM
  #6  
BigPoser
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
BigPoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 554

Bikes: BAHL Giro, BAHL Uno, BAHL GVL, Cuevas

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by dsaul View Post
The dummy axle has to match the dropouts (thru-axle or QR) and the intended hub (QR 135, 12x142, 12x148, etc). If you only have QR dummy axles, you could buy a sacrificial set of the cheaper silver QR inserts and switch them out for the Thru-axle version after the build is finished. The QR 135 and 12x142 are interchangeable.

Thank you! I've got 12x142 so no worries there.
BigPoser is offline  
Old 02-13-20, 12:03 PM
  #7  
BigPoser
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
BigPoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 554

Bikes: BAHL Giro, BAHL Uno, BAHL GVL, Cuevas

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Dsaul - Once you've mate the CS with the front triangle, how do you then align the dropouts? Or in your experience, have you needed too? I would guess that some aligning would be needed. Maybe not with this set up.
BigPoser is offline  
Old 02-13-20, 07:34 PM
  #8  
dsaul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,261
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 340 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 75 Posts
Originally Posted by BigPoser View Post
Dsaul - Once you've mate the CS with the front triangle, how do you then align the dropouts? Or in your experience, have you needed too? I would guess that some aligning would be needed. Maybe not with this set up.
What type of alignment are you referring to? I usually keep the inserts in the full forward position, with the dummy axle installed, while I'm doing anything that requires the frame to be in the jig. If you're referring to H-tool type alignment, I've never had an issue that caused me to question the alignment and I don't own those tools. Some minor wheel alignment adjustment can be done by offsetting the inserts slightly. Generally, with thru axle dropouts, the alignment is correct or you have to cut one of the dropouts off and try again. Rockers are slightly more forgiving of slightly differing chainstay lengths, but there is no fixing seatstay problems without cutting tacks and shortening the longer stay.
dsaul is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.