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Incite/opinion on Columbus Spirit Frame/Columbus Genius

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Incite/opinion on Columbus Spirit Frame/Columbus Genius

Old 08-09-20, 02:50 PM
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mr9iron
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Insight/opinions on Columbus Spirit Frame/Columbus Genius

I am playing around with the idea of having a custom steel frame made. I am considering 3 builders ATM, Rodriguez, Hampsten, and Breadwinner. All of which are in the vicinity where I live. These builders all have experience with Columbus Spirit, and Life tube-sets, which is the material I am considering.


The bikes I ride are nice but was thinking of going to something more modern with possibly disk brakes.


My weight is about 155lbs. The riding I do is mainly endurance riding 50-150 miles, with lots of climbing 3-10k on big rides. I currently ride a Cervelo R3 carbon frame, and I also have a DeRosa Neo Pro which is made from lugged Columbus Genius tubes. Both frames fit me quite well. I am sure a custom made frame could get the fit dialed in more precisely. My carbon frame bike is great for hard climbs and is super light, the steel bike is a decent climber but is really awesome on road feel and comfort on long distances. The R3 is a dura ace build, just under 15lbs. The Neo Pro is a super record build, just under 16lbs.


I am already sold on the steel feeling better and smoother especially as I get older and more sensitive to discomfort. It's not quite as light but I don't race, I do compete with others in my group, just friendly stuff.


The issue I am questioning, as I have never test ridden a modern steel frame, is would a tig welded spirit/life frame have any advantages over the lugged genius frame I am currently riding? I am guessing weight advantage would be negligible from what I have read, especially if I move to disk brakes, any meager weight savings would surely be lost.


Still I know everything is not about weight though it is something I consider, however, are there any other characteristics that may be heads above what I already have? - maybe there is no way to tell and that the way each builder creates the frame allows for different but maybe not verifiable advantages/disadvantages? - Am I picking at straws, maybe I should just shelve this idea?


From what I know, one of the builders may have a frame I could test ride, but I doubt even test rides are enough for me to get a full picture, like I'd need hours in the saddle to make a determination if it feels better. Are there any riders/builders out there that have experience with these frames/materials and could fill me in or give a comparison/impression?


I'd accept - this can't really be answered.. I know there are so many variables at work here. Pulling the trigger on a $$$ custom frame is pretty difficult.


thanks in advance for any information.

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Old 08-09-20, 03:08 PM
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Tigged is a bit easier to build for disc, but plenty of people build lugged frames for disc. I don't know how to answer your question about feel, I have a hard time telling the difference between very different frames. Others have more refined tastes, apparently.
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Old 08-09-20, 08:32 PM
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One of the constants I have come to believe in is that as we change with age and with the available market we look to that next bike as being the "one". This will likely repeat a few times over the decades for most. So I tend to discredit the bleeding edge stuff and focus on what it takes to make a bike that I can live with for 10+ years. Of course the production bike industry tries to shorten this bike life span as much as it can by reinventing old ideas and promising "your best ride" every tear with the new stuff. (BTW I had one of my best rides today. I got to rescue a friend who had dizziness issues at the far end of the route. My ride back to the car to pick them up was wonderful).

Some of the wonderful ride of steel is lost when the stiffness in the fork is needed due to a disk brake. Just my opinion. Andy
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Old 08-10-20, 08:53 AM
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When it comes to ride quality influences I believe the tires are number one, the fork second, and the frame third (or maybe it's the saddle?)

In terms of tubing, Genius uses standard OS sizes and is thin and light. A frame of similar gauge size and diameter but TIG instead of lugged will save a fair bit of weight. Plus you can tune the dimensions for an ideal fit and add features as desired. Sounds like a win for everything other than maybe your wallet.
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Old 08-10-20, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
One of the constants I have come to believe in is that as we change with age and with the available market we look to that next bike as being the "one". This will likely repeat a few times over the decades for most. So I tend to discredit the bleeding edge stuff and focus on what it takes to make a bike that I can live with for 10+ years. Of course the production bike industry tries to shorten this bike life span as much as it can by reinventing old ideas and promising "your best ride" every tear with the new stuff. (BTW I had one of my best rides today. I got to rescue a friend who had dizziness issues at the far end of the route. My ride back to the car to pick them up was wonderful).

Some of the wonderful ride of steel is lost when the stiffness in the fork is needed due to a disk brake. Just my opinion. Andy
this is what i am thinking as I am contemplating a custom frame (i am getting closer to my personal goals checked of for doing this kid has his degree as an eample) in that mind my thinking is to tend to the smaller size frame of what works and want to do threaded steerer/quill stem for both looks and future flexiblity

my big goal is to have do another custom as a mixte in 20 to 25 years when If i can't throw my leg over the frame...and keep riding
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Old 08-10-20, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
One of the constants I have come to believe in is that as we change with age and with the available market we look to that next bike as being the "one". This will likely repeat a few times over the decades for most. So I tend to discredit the bleeding edge stuff and focus on what it takes to make a bike that I can live with for 10+ years. Of course the production bike industry tries to shorten this bike life span as much as it can by reinventing old ideas and promising "your best ride" every tear with the new stuff. (BTW I had one of my best rides today. I got to rescue a friend who had dizziness issues at the far end of the route. My ride back to the car to pick them up was wonderful).

Some of the wonderful ride of steel is lost when the stiffness in the fork is needed due to a disk brake. Just my opinion. Andy
Andrew,

thanks for the reply, I hope your friend is recovered and is doing alright. I try to temper my love "of the bike itself," I really love riding more so, but sometimes I get caught up with the "bike stuff" and want to build yet another bike, especially during the winter season.. I get curious and want to test what the industry barks out, or in some cases, go retro and try something older. You are right, the process has repeated itself a few times already, thanks for pointing that out to me- good grounding advice.
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Old 08-10-20, 01:20 PM
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Nessism

couldn't agree more on the ride influences, thanks for the response on the TIG VS lugged, I have often wondered how much weight lugs add to a frame,having never held a raw lug in my hands..I suppose the weight weenie site might have an answer there..lol

thanks for the reply..
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Old 08-12-20, 07:52 AM
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You can get an approximate weight of the lugs vs tig. Framebuilders supply give weight measurements for the various lugs

https://framebuildersupply.com/colle...y-kirk-pacenti
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Old 11-12-22, 03:39 PM
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The genius was at the time when introduced in 1991 the lightest frameset from Columbus, however it was not recommended for heavy riders, the tubeset is being discontinued from almost 18 years, I would rather have a columbus spirit frame or other solution is to buy a columbus nemo or ultra foco frame in second hand that matches your size.
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Old 11-16-22, 11:27 AM
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I don't think TIG will ride any differently from lugged. It's a little bit lighter but less than you might think when you consider that the lugged frame can use a thinner walled head-tube etc. It may give the builder more flexibility with tubing sizes and angles depending on where he's getting his lugs from or how much he wants to modify them. Really it comes down to aesthetics. Also how "modern" your build is-- not sure if you can do tapered HTs with lugs. In any case, TIG is the more "modern" process so suits the whole look of oversize tubes, disks, large tyre clearance, etc. more IMO.
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Old 11-17-22, 11:54 AM
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I would recommend letting the framebuilder you chose select the tubing based on the ride characteristics you're after. Adhering to a certain tube brand and model name will only limit the options the framebuilder can use to make your bike special to you, unless what's special to you is a little sticker on the frame declaring the frame is made with Columbus Spirit tubing.

Disc brakes are great but they do mean using a stiffer fork than a classic steel fork for rim brakes. To offset that harsher feeling, it'd be good to size up your tires. I'd recommend no narrower than 32mm. You can buy some very nice road tires in that size these days.

You can also add more comfort by requesting a compact frame with a long exposed seat post. That means getting a TIG'd frame unless the builder makes custom lugs. But how the builder attaches the tubes together won't affect the ride quality, just the aesthetics.
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Old 11-17-22, 12:09 PM
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OP probably bought a Trek 2 years ago
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Old 11-17-22, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
OP probably bought a Trek 2 years ago
I don't know. 2 years ago, Treks were hard to come by. But your point is well taken.
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Old 11-20-22, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by niknak View Post
I would recommend letting the framebuilder you chose select the tubing based on the ride characteristics you're after. Adhering to a certain tube brand and model name will only limit the options the framebuilder can use to make your bike special to you, unless what's special to you is a little sticker on the frame declaring the frame is made with Columbus Spirit tubing.

Disc brakes are great but they do mean using a stiffer fork than a classic steel fork for rim brakes. To offset that harsher feeling, it'd be good to size up your tires. I'd recommend no narrower than 32mm. You can buy some very nice road tires in that size these days.

You can also add more comfort by requesting a compact frame with a long exposed seat post. That means getting a TIG'd frame unless the builder makes custom lugs. But how the builder attaches the tubes together won't affect the ride quality, just the aesthetics.
Not all builders are into tuning tubing for a particular customer. Putting blind faith in them may be fine, or it may bite you in the butt. It's always best to question, question, question...without offending.
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Old 11-20-22, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
Not all builders are into tuning tubing for a particular customer. Putting blind faith in them may be fine, or it may bite you in the butt. It's always best to question, question, question...without offending.
You put blind faith in the builder regardless. It's a custom bike after all. Questioning their choices for your build should be part of the conversation for sure.

I just don't believe that someone should get hung up on whether the tubing is Columbus or Reynolds or any other tube brand that makes tubes for cycling. If a builder plans to use a certain tube from Columbus but it's out of stock everywhere and instead uses a Kaisei tube with a similar tube profile, does it matter?
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