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Tube notching software?

Old 12-24-20, 02:15 PM
  #1  
Tandem Tom
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Tube notching software?

I would like to start practicing fillet brazing this winter and will need to hand mitre my practice tubes.
Doug Garrix ,in his course, suggested Metalgeek. I started looking at it and it talks about downloading the pattern in PDF,PNG, PostScript and a few others. Being tech challenged I am a bit confused.
so any assistance would be great or if there is a simpler program that would be great to.
Thanks!!
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Old 12-24-20, 02:40 PM
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You're welcome to use this one which I developed. There's a program for designing the frame (framebuild.py) which also outputs the mitre templates, but you can run the mitre template program (copecalc.py) on its own.

It does ellipses and offsets which are useful for oval chainstays and seatstays. It can even do mitres for tapered headtubes (with a bit of pain).

You do need to download python and stuff so don't know if it counts as all that easy to use...

My frame designs are all included as well and should be considered open-source

https://github.com/benc153/framebuild
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Old 12-24-20, 02:59 PM
  #3  
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IIRC BikeCad has a tube miter template feature.

Here's a coping calculator I've had in my design folder for years, don't think i have actually used it. Tube Coping Calculator (metalgeek.com) I see it's the same as the OP referenced already. Andy
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Old 12-24-20, 04:19 PM
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The metalgeek one is not that hard to use. You set the dimensions to mm and input the tube size for the cut tube first, tube wall thickness, uncut tube size, angle of the cut and any offset you may want. Most people won't use the offset, but its useful for offsetting the seat tube forward on the bottom bracket or the chainstays to be lower on the bottom bracket. It just offsets the center of the cut from the center line of the tube, by the selected dimension After you put in the dimensions, hit the "recalculate" button and then hit the PDF download. The pattern will pop up on your screen and you can print it from there.
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Old 12-24-20, 10:42 PM
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make sure your print software is set to full scale and not fit to page. And then change it back afterwards, it's annoying not to have it fit to page.
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Old 12-25-20, 07:44 AM
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Thanks for your replies!!! I will begin playing!
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Old 12-25-20, 11:10 AM
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Tom- May I suggest that some of your practice joints be sized for possible future lugs? Especially the seat lug as that's the one that all kinds of sculpting, post binder placement and stay attachment real estate is most variable and personalized. Andy (who is currently struggling with his SB 9" lathe gear box reassembly).
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Old 12-25-20, 04:21 PM
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If you have a C compiler, here's a short public domain program to print a miter template onto paper. You trim the template, wrap it around the tube, and miter to match the template:

john@atuin:~$ ./miter -?
miter [-dnumber] [-Dnumber] [-p] [-anumber] [-onumber] [-lstring] [-v]
Example:
miter -d1.0 -D1.25 -a27 -l"Top tube to head tube"

-d - diameter of mitered tube; default 1.0
-D - diameter of right tube butting against; default 1.0
-E - diameter of left tube butting against; default 1.0
-L - length between deepest point (facing towards middle of tube) of each miter; default 4.0
-p - butt against flat plate
-o - offset of d centerline from D centerline; default 0.0
-a - included angle between centerlines on right side; default 90
-b - included angle between centerlines on left side; default 90
-P - phase angle between centerlines of each miter; default 0
-l - label to print on output
-v - print output for ADAMS/View
-g - suppress guidelines on PostScript
-Z - paper size:
0: ANSI A (8.5x11)
1: ANSI B (11x17)
2: ANSI C (17x22)
3: ANSI D (22x34)
4: ANSI E (34x44)
5: A0 (33.1x46.8)
6: A1 (23.4x33.1)
7: A2 (16.5x23.4)
8: A3 (11.7x16.5)
9: A4 (8.3x11.7)
10: A5 (5.8x8.3)
11: B0 (39.4x55.7)
12: B1 (27.8x39.4)
13: B2 (19.7x27.8)
14: B3 (13.9x19.7)
15: B4 (9.8x13.9)
16: B5 (6.9x9.8)

Code:
/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
/* Written by Eric Fahlgren efahl@adams.com                                   */
/* November 1994                                                              */
/*                                                                            */
/* Adapted by Jason Byrne in 2015 to print a miter on each side of tube.      */
/* jbyrne27@gmail.com                                                         */
/*                                                                            */
/* Distribute as you see fit.  Please retain my name and email address above. */
/*                                                                            */
/*                                                                            */
/* If you find any bugs or anomalous behavior, please email me with an        */
/* example.                                                                   */
/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void fix_libc_(){} /* Subvert stupidity of acc on Sparc */

#include <math.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

#define PI            3.14159265359
#define HALF_PI       1.57079632679489661923132169164E+0
#define TWO_PI        6.28318530717958647692528676656E+0
#define SEGS          36
#define INC           (TWO_PI / SEGS)

#define DTOR          1.74532925199432957692369076849E-2     /* PI / 180 */
#define RTOD          5.72957795130823208767981548141E+1     /* 180 / PI */

#define DEG(r)        ((r) * RTOD)
#define DEGREES(r)    ((r) * RTOD)
#define RAD(d)        ((d) * DTOR)
#define RADIANS(d)    ((d) * DTOR)

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

typedef enum { FALSE, TRUE } BOOL;

typedef enum { out_PS, out_VIEW } OutputDest;
OutputDest Output = out_PS;

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

static double PS_MaxY = 0.0;
static BOOL   PS_GuideLines = TRUE;

void PS_Header(double R1, double R2, double R3, double F, double A, double A2, char *Label, double P, double *paperSize)
{
   if ( Output != out_PS ) return;

   printf("%%!PS-Adobe-2.0\n");
   printf("gsave\n");
   printf("initgraphics\n");
   printf("<</PageSize [%g %g]>>setpagedevice", paperSize[0]*72.0, paperSize[1]*72.0); //Units are inches*72
   printf("\n");
   printf("72 dup scale\n");
   printf("0.5 0.5 translate\n");
   printf("0.005 setlinewidth\n");
   printf("/tick { lineto 0 0.05 rlineto 0 -0.10 rlineto 0 0.05 rlineto } def\n");
   printf("/pnum { 10 string cvs show } def\n");
   printf("/Courier findfont 10 72 div scalefont setfont\n");
   printf("gsave\n");
   printf("   90 rotate\n");
   printf("   1.0 -1.5 translate\n");
   printf("   newpath 0.1 1.25 moveto (%s) show\n", Label);
   printf("   newpath 0.1 1.00 moveto (D this tube = ) show %f pnum\n", 2*R1);
   printf("   newpath 0.1 0.75 moveto (D butt to R = ) show %f pnum\n", 2*R2);
   printf("   newpath 0.1 0.50 moveto (D butt to L = ) show %f pnum\n", 2*R3);
   printf("   newpath 0.1 0.25 moveto (Offset      = ) show %f pnum\n", F );
   printf("   newpath 0.1 0.00 moveto (Angle R     = ) show %f pnum\n", 90.0-DEGREES(A) );
   printf("   newpath 0.1 -0.25 moveto (Angle L     = ) show %f pnum\n", 90.0-DEGREES(A2) );
   printf("   newpath 0.1 -0.50 moveto (Phase       = ) show %f pnum\n", DEGREES(P) );
   printf("grestore\n");
   printf("newpath 0 0 moveto\n");
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void PS_Line(double x, double y)
{
   if ( Output != out_PS ) return;
   if ( y > PS_MaxY ) PS_MaxY = y;
   printf("%f %f tick\n", x, y);
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void PS_Trailer(double x, double y)
{
   if ( Output != out_PS ) return;
   //   printf("0 %f rlineto\n", -y);
   printf("closepath stroke\n");
   if ( PS_GuideLines ) {
      printf("newpath 0 0 moveto 0 %f lineto stroke\n", PS_MaxY);
      printf("newpath %f 0 moveto %f %f lineto stroke\n", x/4.0, x/4.0, PS_MaxY);
      printf("newpath %f 0 moveto %f %f lineto stroke\n", x/2.0, x/2.0, PS_MaxY);
      printf("newpath %f 0 moveto %f %f lineto stroke\n", 3*x/4.0, 3*x/4.0, PS_MaxY);
      printf("newpath %f 0 moveto %f %f lineto stroke\n", x, x, PS_MaxY);
      printf("newpath 0 %f moveto %f %f lineto stroke\n", PS_MaxY, x, PS_MaxY);
   }
   printf("showpage\n");
   printf("grestore\n");
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void VIEW_Header(double R1, double R2, double F, double A, char *Label)
{
   if ( Output != out_VIEW ) return;
   printf("var cre var=xxR1 rea=%f uni=length\n", R1);
   printf("var cre var=xxR2 rea=%f uni=length\n", R2);
   printf("var cre var=xxF  rea=%f uni=length\n", F);
   printf("var cre var=xxA  rea=%f uni=angle\n", DEGREES(A));
   printf("geo cre cur pol pol=.mod1.ground.pol1 loc= &\n");
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void VIEW_Line(double x, double y, double z)
{
   if ( Output != out_VIEW ) return;
   printf("%f, %f, %f, &\n", x, y, z);
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void VIEW_Trailer(double x, double y, double z)
{
   if ( Output != out_VIEW ) return;
   printf("%f,%f,%f\n", x, y, z);
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void Header(double R1, double R2, double R3, double F, double A, double A2, char *Label, double P, double *paperSize)
{
   switch ( Output ) {
      case out_PS  : PS_Header  (R1, R2, R3, F, A, A2, Label, P, paperSize); break;
      case out_VIEW: VIEW_Header(R1, R2, F, A, Label); break;
   }
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void Line(double x, double y, double z, double l)
{
   switch ( Output ) {
      case out_PS  : PS_Line  (l, z);    break;
      case out_VIEW: VIEW_Line(x, y, z); break;
   }
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void Trailer(double x, double y, double z, double l)
{
   switch ( Output ) {
      case out_PS  : PS_Trailer(l, z);      break;
      case out_VIEW: VIEW_Trailer(x, y, z); break;
   }
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
double DrawMiter(double R1, double R2, double F, double A, double L, double Z, double P)
{
   int    i;
   double x, y, z;
   double theta;
   double R2sqr = R2 * R2;
   double m = tan(A);         /* Slope of line */
   double m2 = tan(A / 2.0);  /* To compute intercept */
   double b, d;
   double points [SEGS+1];
   double zmax;
   double zmin;

   zmax = -1000;
   zmin = 1000;
   for ( i = 0; i <= SEGS; i++ ) {
      theta = -HALF_PI + i * INC + P;
      x = R1 * cos(theta) - F; /* x with offset */
      y = R1 * sin(theta);     /* y */
      if ( R2 == 0.0 ) {
         z = 0.0;             /* z against a flat plate */
         b = 0.0;
      }
      else {
         d = R2sqr - x*x;     /* z against tube */
         z = d < 0.0 ? 0.0 : sqrt(d); /* z without tilt */
         b = m * m2 * z;       /* Compute intercept of tilted line */
      }
      z += y * m + b;          /* Compute z increment from tilted line */
      x += F;                  /* Move x back where it should be */
      if (z > zmax)
	  zmax = z;
      if (z < zmin)
	  zmin = z;
      points[i] = z;
   }

   for ( i = 0; i <= SEGS; i++ ) {
       if ( Output == out_PS ) {
	   Line(x, y, points[i]+L+Z-zmin, i * INC * R1);
       }
   }
   return zmax-zmin;
}


/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void WritePoints(double R1, double R2, double R3, double F, double A, double A2, double L, double P, char *Label, double *paperSize)
{
   double x, y;
   double Z;

   Header(R1, R2, R3, F, A, A2, Label, P, paperSize);
   Z=DrawMiter(R1, R3, F, A2, 0, 0, 0);   
   Line(x, y, 0, SEGS * INC * R1);
   Line(x, y, 0, 0);
   DrawMiter(R1, R2, F, PI-A, L, Z, P);
   Line(x, y, 0, SEGS * INC * R1);
   Line(x, y, 0, 0);
   Trailer(x, y, 0, (SEGS) * INC * R1);
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

void Usage(void)
{
   fprintf(stderr, "miter [-dnumber] [-Dnumber] [-p] [-anumber] [-onumber] [-lstring] [-v]\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "   Example:\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      miter -d1.0 -D1.25 -a27 -l\"Top tube to head tube\"\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -d - diameter of mitered tube; default 1.0\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -D - diameter of right tube butting against; default 1.0\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -E - diameter of left tube butting against; default 1.0\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -L - length between deepest point (facing towards middle of tube) of each miter; default 4.0\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -p - butt against flat plate\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -o - offset of d centerline from D centerline; default 0.0\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -a - included angle between centerlines on right side; default 90\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -b - included angle between centerlines on left side; default 90\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -P - phase angle between centerlines of each miter; default 0\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -l - label to print on output\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -v - print output for ADAMS/View\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -g - suppress guidelines on PostScript\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "      -Z - paper size:\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           0:  ANSI A (8.5x11)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           1:  ANSI B (11x17)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           2:  ANSI C (17x22)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           3:  ANSI D (22x34)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           4:  ANSI E (34x44)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           5:  A0 (33.1x46.8)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           6:  A1 (23.4x33.1)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           7:  A2 (16.5x23.4)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           8:  A3 (11.7x16.5)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           9:  A4 (8.3x11.7)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           10: A5 (5.8x8.3)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           11: B0 (39.4x55.7)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           12: B1 (27.8x39.4)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           13: B2 (19.7x27.8)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           14: B3 (13.9x19.7)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           15: B4 (9.8x13.9)\n");
   fprintf(stderr, "           16: B5 (6.9x9.8)\n");
   exit(1);
}

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

int main(int ArgC, char *ArgV[])
{
   int    iArg;
   double R1    = 0.5; /* Radius of tube for which we are cutting the miter */
   double R2    = 0.5; /* Radius of tube against which we are butting on right*/
   double R3    = 0.5; /* Radius of tube against which we are butting on left*/
   double L     = 4.0; /* Length of mitered tube between deepest point of each miter */
   double F     = 0.0; /* Offset of R1 centerline from R2 centerline */
   double A     = 0.0; /* Angle between R1 centerline and R2 centerline */
   double P     = 0.0; /* Angle between centerline of each miter */
   double A2    = 0.0; /* Angle between R1 centerline and R2 centerline on other end*/
   char  *Label = "";  /* Any comment you wish to provide */
   int    Z     = 0;
   double paperSize[2]; /*Paper size in postscript units (inches*72) */

   for ( iArg = 1; iArg < ArgC; iArg++ ) {
      if ( ArgV[iArg][0] != '-' ) Usage();

      switch ( ArgV[iArg][1] ) {
         case 'l':
            Label = &ArgV[iArg][2];
         break;

         case 'd':
            sscanf(&ArgV[iArg][2], "%lf", &R1);
            R1 /= 2.0;
         break;

         case 'D':
            sscanf(&ArgV[iArg][2], "%lf", &R2);
            R2 /= 2.0;
         break;

         case 'E':
            sscanf(&ArgV[iArg][2], "%lf", &R3);
            R3 /= 2.0;
         break;

         case 'L':
            sscanf(&ArgV[iArg][2], "%lf", &L);
         break;

         case 'p':
            R2 = 0.0;
         break;

         case 'a':
            sscanf(&ArgV[iArg][2], "%lf", &A);
            A = RADIANS(90.0 - A);
         break;

         case 'b':
            sscanf(&ArgV[iArg][2], "%lf", &A2);
            A2 = RADIANS(90.0 - A2);
         break;

         case 'P':
            sscanf(&ArgV[iArg][2], "%lf", &P);
            P = RADIANS(P);
         break;

         case 'o':
            sscanf(&ArgV[iArg][2], "%lf", &F);
         break;

         case 'v':
            Output = out_VIEW;
         break;

         case 'g':
            PS_GuideLines = FALSE;
         break;
      
         case 'Z':
	     sscanf(&ArgV[iArg][2], "%d", &Z);
         break;

         default:
            Usage();
         break;
      }
   }


   switch (Z) {
      case 0:
          paperSize[0] = 8.5; paperSize[1] = 11; break;
      case 1:
          paperSize[0] = 11; paperSize[1] = 17; break;
      case 2:
          paperSize[0] = 17; paperSize[1] = 22; break;
      case 3:
          paperSize[0] = 22; paperSize[1] = 34; break;
      case 4:
          paperSize[0] = 34; paperSize[1] = 44; break;
      case 5:
          paperSize[0] = 33.1; paperSize[1] = 46.8; break;
      case 6:
          paperSize[0] = 23.4; paperSize[1] = 33.1; break;
      case 7:
          paperSize[0] = 16.5; paperSize[1] = 23.4; break;
      case 8:
          paperSize[0] = 11.7; paperSize[1] = 16.5; break;
      case 9:
          paperSize[0] = 8.3; paperSize[1] = 11.7; break;
      case 10:
          paperSize[0] = 5.8; paperSize[1] = 8.3; break;
      case 11:
          paperSize[0] = 39.4; paperSize[1] = 55.7; break;
      case 12:
          paperSize[0] = 27.8; paperSize[1] = 39.4; break;
      case 13:
          paperSize[0] = 19.7; paperSize[1] = 27.8; break;
      case 14:
          paperSize[0] = 13.9; paperSize[1] = 19.7; break;
      case 15:
          paperSize[0] = 9.8; paperSize[1] = 13.9; break;
      case 16:
          paperSize[0] = 6.9; paperSize[1] = 9.8; break;
      default:
	  paperSize[0] = 8.5; paperSize[1] = 11; break;
   }

   WritePoints(R1, R2, R3, F, A, A2, L, P, Label, paperSize);

#ifdef TESTING
   WritePoints(0.75, 1.625, 0.0, RADIANS(atan(1.7/16.0)));
   WritePoints(0.75 / 2.0, 1.625 / 2.0, 0.0, atan(1.7/16.0), "Chain stay to BB");
   WritePoints(0.5 / 2.0, 1.125 / 2.0, 0.25, RADIANS(45.0), "Right seat stay to seat tube");
   WritePoints(0.5 / 2.0, 1.125 / 2.0, -0.25, RADIANS(45.0), "Left seat stay to seat tube");
   WritePoints(1.00/2, 1.25/2, 0.0, RADIANS(90.0 - 72.0), "Top tube to head tube");
   WritePoints(1.00/2, 1.125/2, 0.0, RADIANS(90.0 - 75.0), "Top tube to seat tube");
#endif

   exit(0);
}

Last edited by JohnDThompson; 12-25-20 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 12-25-20, 07:03 PM
  #9  
Doug Fattic 
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Tom- May I suggest that some of your practice joints be sized for possible future lugs? Especially the seat lug as that's the one that all kinds of sculpting, post binder placement and stay attachment real estate is most variable and personalized. Andy (who is currently struggling with his SB 9" lathe gear box reassembly).
Adding to what Andy suggested, I'm sure you noticed that in class our practices started with easy stuff and proceeded to more difficult as brazing skills improved. I'm suggesting to use the same approach as you practice fillet brazing. In fact practicing fillet brazing can also improve your silver brazing because you will be learning flame control.

I recommend brazing short 1" stubs onto 1 1/4" long tube as a base. The length of the bigger tube makes it easier to keep turning it by hand so the joint is always in the best position for laying down the brass. Start with a miter at 90 and when you get accomplished change to 74 and finally 60. Eventually you work your way up to using 1 1/8" stubs till finally getting to 1 1/4" stubs. You can use the experience you got doing the easier joints to finally getting a nice fillet on the ears of the miter on tubes of the same diameter. That can be a tough one to do. It can be discouraging and frustrating to start with the more difficult options.

I also recommend finding/making something to help steady your brass holding hand/arm. Some kind of tool like that can help you place the brass exactly where you want it and make the whole process better.
Doug Fattic is offline  

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