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Box of FUN!!

Old 09-27-22, 05:59 PM
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Robvolz 
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Box of FUN!!

I posted this in the classic and vintage section, people did not geek




out over the rarity of some of the pieces.
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Old 09-28-22, 08:21 AM
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As most of this stuff is long past production it will become rarer over the years. I will say that there are quite a few people who have this kind of stuff in their stash still though. Were this collection be offered for sale I would only value a few items as being likely to ever be used. The Campy 1010 dropouts being the most valuable IMO. Most of the rest would be pennies on the dollar. Andy
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Old 09-28-22, 09:35 AM
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That's an interesting collection. Probably every builder that was active in the '70s or early '80s has something similar. The only thing I don't recognize is the dropout that appears to have an adjuster on it. Maybe it's welded on? I'm not sure it's a good idea. It always is somewhat of a culture shock to see how bad some of that stuff was finished. Sand casting clean parts isn't easy. But the stamped parts are also a lot of work to finish, especially bottom brackets.

Is that a contact for a SoN connectorless hub in the plastic bag?

Someone wanted to buy Campagnolo track dropouts, DSaul maybe? I think they stopped making the front track dropouts at some point, at least I don't have a set with my rear track dropouts. Usually when you see track dropouts on ebay, they come with a road set of front dropouts. So yours are unusual in that regard. Also, 1010 dropouts (with eyelets) are not particularly common. The ones without eyelets came with every groupo, so there are a lot of them.

Looks like someone used the drive side vertical dropout for a repair. They obviously didn't take those dropouts seriously, which is funny given what we know now. The French were using vertical dropouts at that time, but nobody was paying attention to them.
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Old 09-28-22, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
The only thing I don't recognize is the dropout that appears to have an adjuster on it. Maybe it's welded on?
I think that's a Huret dropout, as supplied i.e. they came with that housing stop, forged integral I think. Though it's not a typical forged shape so who knows, could be cast, or welded on. I think I've only ever seen them with paint on.

Ah yes here we go. Huret 1978 catalog according to the ebay seller:


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Old 09-29-22, 01:52 AM
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I have a set of those dropouts in my collection Velofilie They are casted including housingstop;
The alignment screw is not threaded in the dropout but in the plastic insert.

Greetz, Wiel
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Old 09-29-22, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Someone wanted to buy Campagnolo track dropouts,
That might have been me. I've been distracted from that project lately with paying bills and a gravel frame/fork set I am trying to get finished before the shop gets too cold to work. That project is next though. If these are for sale, I'd be interested.

Because they will get covered with stainless faces and I want a few sets, I was thinking I will have some water cut and use the opportunity to develop some Fusion 360 skills .
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Old 09-29-22, 10:39 AM
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I would have them laser cut. Rear track dropouts are ideal for that either process though.
I keep thinking about having dropouts made. Too many projects right now though, and I would still need a mill to finish some details. And my mill still doesn't work. In other news, General Francisco Franco is still dead.
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Old 09-29-22, 09:06 PM
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I wanted the box for the OG DeRosa lugs.and a pair of dropouts.

The seller said, nope, I will not simply sell you those. You must take the entire box

So here I am.

If there are things you want to give a lil $$ more, message me.
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Old 09-29-22, 09:08 PM
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also, can anybody ID the fork crowns?
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Old 09-29-22, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
also, can anybody ID the fork crowns?
I used to think I knew, now I'm not so sure!

The fully-sloping one with the inside plugs, I used to confidently state was a Davis. Then someone here (BF) pointed out there was more than one UK firm making "Cinelli-like" internal fully-sloping crowns. Look for example at the Raleigh Pro, and then the Raleigh Competition. Similar, but different! I guess our working theory is the Pro used a Davis, whereas the thinner, more machined one on the Competition and Super Tourer is a Harrington. I can't find any source or corroboration for that though, so consider it a tantalizing hint not a fact. I had noticed the difference between the Pro crown and the Competition, but I guess I just assumed it was just a case of running changes, or maybe Davis made a couple slightly different models... I can't even tell which one you have in your box, though I could tell if I had them in my hand. Probably Davis though, if I had to guess. The crowns I have in my box of obsolete crowns are from Davis I think! Someone please correct me if that's wrong:

I've made a few forks with them, late '70s to early '80s, and I don't look forward to doing it again. Too much work to make 'em look decent.

Moving on to those two crudely forged externally socketed ones. They're clearly the same crown with different feature cuts. Kevin Sayles [a framebuilder for something like 50 years, worked at Bob Jackson, Woodrup and others, now building under his own name], said he thought they were Milremo '14bis', but since Milremo was just an importer/distributor, that doesn't tell us who made them. Kevin thought Prugnat. But Norris Lockley, an even more knowledgeable FB (started in the '50s) said no, he was friends with the Prugnat family and had visited their factory many times, and they never made fork crowns. Their stuff was all pressed and welded sheetmetal lugs. In 1985 Prugnat was bought out by Wagner (who did make forged crowns) when old mad Prugnat retired. But Norris was quite sure that the "Milremo" crown was not made by Wagner either. I concur, from my much more limited knowledgebase: Wagner made a lot of different crowns, but they all have a certain family resemblance, and those Milremo crowns look unrelated, too different. They actually remind me more of certain Italian crowns I've seen.

Your Milremo (I guess I'll ditch the scare-quotes and just call them that, for lack of a better name), the one with the nicer feature cut, was used on probably just one year of the Motobecane Team Champion (a.k.a. Champion Team). The extreme roughness means a lot of work to make them look nice, but I think they look pretty stylin' on the Moto


Both Kevin and Norris said they were so poorly made that they had to throw a lot of them away, searching through the box to find a crown that was good enough to actually use.

It would make me really happy to have someone here chime in with actual knowledge on any of these crowns. It bugs me to not know!

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Old 09-30-22, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by duanedr View Post
That might have been me. I've been distracted from that project lately with paying bills and a gravel frame/fork set I am trying to get finished before the shop gets too cold to work. That project is next though. If these are for sale, I'd be interested.

Because they will get covered with stainless faces and I want a few sets, I was thinking I will have some water cut and use the opportunity to develop some Fusion 360 skills .
Here's some lasercut track ends. I dunno who made 'em. Patterned after (copied from) some forged dropouts that were sold under a few names including Zeus. These are rougher around the edges than the Zeus originals, but should look fine after some fettling.



Duane, if these interest you, I would trade a couple pairs for a little time on your mill. Nothing pressing, maybe this winter or next spring. I guess these won't get you any Fusion360 chops though. Not a lot of room for SS faces on these either, pretty slender silhouette.

The Zeus originals are a sentinetal fave for me because I made a track bike with them in about 1980 for my then-girlfriend, now wife. She won a couple medals at Districts on it. I think she married me to lock in a good deal on custom bike frames for life. Priorities!

If those don't float yer boat, let's still talk about swapping mill time for dropouts, I have lots of track dropouts, in maybe a half dozen styles. They ain't goin' nowhere.

Mark B
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Old 09-30-22, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I would have them laser cut. Rear track dropouts are ideal for that either process though.
I keep thinking about having dropouts made. Too many projects right now though, and I would still need a mill to finish some details. And my mill still doesn't work. In other news, General Francisco Franco is still dead.
Water or laser. If I can find a decent vertical bandsaw - that isn't a project on its own - I might make them from plate. Too many projects.
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Old 09-30-22, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
Here's some lasercut track ends. I dunno who made 'em. Patterned after (copied from) some forged dropouts that were sold under a few names including Zeus. These are rougher around the edges than the Zeus originals, but should look fine after some fettling.



Duane, if these interest you, I would trade a couple pairs for a little time on your mill. Nothing pressing, maybe this winter or next spring. I guess these won't get you any Fusion360 chops though. Not a lot of room for SS faces on these either, pretty slender silhouette.

The Zeus originals are a sentinetal fave for me because I made a track bike with them in about 1980 for my then-girlfriend, now wife. She won a couple medals at Districts on it. I think she married me to lock in a good deal on custom bike frames for life. Priorities!

If those don't float yer boat, let's still talk about swapping mill time for dropouts, I have lots of track dropouts, in maybe a half dozen styles. They ain't goin' nowhere.

Mark B
Happy to have you! Hahn did a Fusion session a couple years ago that Alistair and I went to. I have yet to figure out how to create a box.

Referring back to another thread, too many ideas and Franco remains dead. I'm generally around on weekends or evenings.
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Old 09-30-22, 07:04 PM
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there are a ton of good youtube videos about fusion. Lars for starters. Although if I knew nothing and didn't intend to make money off of cad I would learn freecad.
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Old 09-30-22, 09:25 PM
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Davis and Haden were some of the better known British known framebuilding fittings manufacturers. Going way back was Chater-Lea, Also there was Brampton - who made a popular Track fork crown, among other fittings.

I'm sure there were probably some other small English foundries that made bike frame parts before WWII and up to around the early 1970's.

I was once lucky enough to talk with Ron Cooper about his early years at Gillott and about the frame materials they used back then. He gave it some thought and said that they (Gillotts) used to get some frame parts from (IIRC) a company named Vaughan's - whom I had never heard of.

Maybe Doug Fattic has some memories from his days in England about other suppliers ?

I never bought one because they were rare (and expensive in the collector world) on this side of the pond, but THE bible on many of these things was the old Brown Bros. wholesale catalog of bike parts. For those old enough to remember phone books or the Sears catalog, it was about that thick.

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Old 10-01-22, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
there are a ton of good youtube videos about fusion. Lars for starters. Although if I knew nothing and didn't intend to make money off of cad I would learn freecad.
I have tried Freecad as well. I assume my inability to create a box in any CAD program is the universes way of saying I shouldn't design things.
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Old 10-01-22, 05:42 AM
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Many solid modelers work the same. Draw a closed sketch and extrude is the usual way to make a box. I remember the first time I tried to draw something in solidworks and how frustrating it was that I couldn't make it extrude. It was because my drawing wasn't a closed contour, there was some little bit that was still unconnected.
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