How do I get an older Trek frame modified and painted?
 

I am kinda new to the forum so thanks for your patience,

I have an old Trek 710 frame that I would love to get some braze-ons added and the entire frame painted. I have looked for resources for a number of years but I am having no luck finding anyone that wants to take on the job. I will ship to you.

I have all new NOS Campy parts ready to go back on it. Dia-Comp and SR parts were rotten or sold years ago.

Here is a pic of my bike years ago after I picked it up:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0957a26931.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bec7892e17.jpg


Anyone willing to take on the job or know of anyone that will?

Again not having any luck,

Michael :(

Michael- There are a number of people who paint bikes, and many also can handle the added braze ons. Where are you? I would suggest working with a painter close to you as a first choice.

What grade of paint job are you expecting? Factory like (and remember that those early Treks had some of the better factory paint jobs) with decals or down and dirty powder coated?

Hard to see clearly from the fuzzy photo but I think the headtube is a second color (IIRC the seat tube panel is a huge decal). A two color job which needs masking (as opposed to a fade), decal application and clear over, OEM paint stripping and proper wet paint prep might run $800-1000 these days. Single color powder coat with no decals or clear and the minimal prep that cheap outfits like might be close to $200. That's a large range...dependent of the wants and expectations.

I've worked with over a dozen painters over the years and done my own way back when (and recently starting back up but with HoK paint instead of Imron this time) and can say that every paint job had some little (or not so little...) issue with them. This aspect, the expectations and end results, is important to discuss with the painter. before any OEM paint is removed.

Lastly please understand if some here don't really want to share the guy who makes them look good. Finding a good painter who stresses the details and doesn't think a bike is a toy isn't easy and can get expensive is the results are not what was wanted. So, again, what kind of job are you wanting? And what are the added braze ons going to be? Andy.

Michael, when you say "take on the job" do you mean someone that can add the braze-ons and do the painting? Or does your expectation include more work like assembling the frame into a complete bicycle? And when we are talking about doing the paint, does that mean making it look like original with 2 colors and decals? Or just painted in some color scheme you prefer?

One color paint jobs without graphics is a lot simpler and cheaper to do then when you add another color. A 2 color paint job is almost twice as much work as a single color and the price will reflect that. And adding decals can be a lot more complicated than just slapping them on. A show quality job with glossy and smooth clears over everything is a lot more work too. So there are a number of variables possible in your request.

Many people like to get their frames power coated because it is so much cheaper. That probably means taking your frame 2 palaces. I'm a wet paint painter so that would not be my solution. One wet paint option is Jack at Franklin Frames in Ohio. He has prices that seem too cheap to me. I can't endorse or discourage taking your frame to him because I have not seen his work in person. There are lots of positive reviews online.

My materials cost on doing a wet paint job avearage around $150 a frame. That does not include overhead shop expenses. I would expect a single color without decals under clear to be at least $500. Multi colors with graphics can run over $1,000. Even though that sounds really expensive, painting is low profit work requiring costly equipment and lots of experience to do it right. That is why you are having a hard time finding someone to do your job. BTW, my primary job is teaching frame building and painting classes so I don't have time to take on paint jobs unless they are old Doug Fattic frames or a student built frame. I'm just trying to provide some information.

I believe that the OP is from the Virginia/DC area.

You are correct!!

I am just looking for a single color re-paint and clear I have all of the decals to replace the originals. I am not set on the decals being under clear as the originals were over paint and no clear. The braze-ons that I want added are down tube shifter stays and front derailleur stay, I have those so no having to source them. I can assemble the bike on my end.

The frame is Reynolds 531 and the brase-on's that I have are either Basso or Campy Reynolds 531 as well.

Michael

I am glad that I found this forum. I now realize that the ask of my autobody painter is likely more than he knows to add the braze-ons. He's a great painter but likely not ready to take on the brazing which is why he is stuck.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...240f06deaf.jpg

Here is some of his paintwork on a Giant that was licensed by Trek back in the 1980's of my 700 series frame. This photo is of a GN serial. This is clear over decals.

I will pick up my frame from him and continue to try finding a new place to do the work.

Michael

Aircraft Stripper
Putty Knife and Pick
Brass Brush Drill Bit
Sand Paper
Etching Primer (Rustolium)
Sand Paper
Etching Primer (Rustolium)
Sand Paper
Etching Primer (Rustolium)
Professional Quality 1" Paint Brush
Rustolium Gloss Enamel with 20% Penitrol
And then the HARDEST PART!
Let It Dry...

Close up for the detail. He has put a lot of time into it for sure.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...954c7db305.jpg

Back to my original post. "I would love to get some braze-ons added and the entire frame painted."

Looking for someone to take on the job.

Michael

Just a bit more information for those looking at this thread in the future. The kind of automotive paint we use on bicycles is polyurethane enamel. This is a two part paint that uses an activator to harden (instead of letting the paint air dry by letting the solvents evaporate). This is the most durable wet paint. It comes as either a single and two stage variety. Both need an activated primer as a base. The activator is added to the color in the single stage variety. A clear coat may or may not be put on top. The 2 stage variety is also called a base coat/cear coat system. In this version the color coats are very thin (much thinner than the single stage paint) and 3 or 4 coats are applied. The paint at this stage is not durable at all and when it dries after a few minutes it becomes dull. On top of these coats activated clear coats are applied (usually 2). The choices of which system to use might be based on paint colors or what the painter has on hand.

If a show quality paint job is desired. The clear coats are wet sanded smooth before more clears are applied. This gets ride of dust nibs or any paint irregularities. If Decals are going to be used, they are placed in-between the clears.

If one is going to do the painting themselves, the best option to use an activated primer that Spray.Max sells in a rattle can. To activate the mixture before painting a button is pushed on the bottom, of the can. SprayBike makes all kinds of colors that can be sprayed next. This is the base coat/clear coat system. Then Spray Max activated clears can be put on top. It is possible to use very fine grit sandpaper and rubbing polishes afterwards to provide a show quality finish.

The problem is that not a lot of framebuilders are also painters. We are a very small group. You might want to take your frame to a local builder to get the braze-ons added (and maybe some subtracted). I would strongly encourage you to have him align the frame and perhaps spread the rear dropouts (depending on what wheel you are using). Trek steel frames were a bit sloppy with alignment right from the factory. They wouldn't have gotten better with age. If this was my frame I would definitely do that. When the builder is finished you could take your frame to your local auto painter you already have some connection..

If you get desperate I can do it. I'm guessing Franklin Frames is faster and cheaper. Keep in mind that shipping both ways adds a lot to your cost and I always use a new box to send it back increasing your expenses even more. I can't take a chance some cut down bicycle box will fully protect your frame on the trip back. Furthermore it takes time to package a frame properly using old materials and I truly don't want to be bothered nor spend the extra time. And have the uncertainty it will 100% arrive perfectly. The frame boxes I have made locally are double corrugated with an inner liner that I zip tie the frame to after covering it with pipe insolation. That way the frame doesn't not move at all in transit.

I will reach out to Franklin Frames, found them on FB and have their # and will give them a call.

I haven't shipped a frame in a bit but I used to loot Performance Bicycles dumpsters when I was. Too bad that they are gone. My nearest bike shop is about 15 miles away and I just don't go by there often enough to know what day of the week is unpacking day. Once I pick up my frame I will take a few pics. Didn't have the time to make it happen today. My only concerns are that the paint match the NOS decals that I was able to find. The frame is going to have to be re-painted in what I would consider a "bronze" instead of the "pewter" that it started as from Trek. I also know that the factory paint has already been sanded and it is mostly bare at this point so no going back.

As to the frame shaping I had forgotten about that. I did run into issues fitting a 6/7 cog sprocket in it as it began life as a 5spd rear sprocket. I have not purchased the new wheels/rims wheel hubs I will start looking at that.

Last thing that I would like changed is this:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...49bd7b4fd9.png
I would like to make this a flush mount.

One of if not the most important things about the bike frame is that it was built by Trek and who was working there at the time and who had their hands on it. It is a bit of Trek history before they grew up into the company that they are today.
I am a very early frame based on Vintage Trek Bicycle Frame Serial Numbers, bike

Thanks for the thoughts and input Doug.

Michael- Practice patience when contacting Jack at Franklin Cycles. He can be hard to get to but every story about him I've heard of is positive WRT the paint work. If he doesn't work out, I have a painter in PA who isn't looking for work but might consider the paint part. I would contact him and get back to you if you needed another painter. But I believe Jack can do both the braze ons and the paint if he's "open" for business.

Since shipping can be expensive, and as any UPS delivery person will say "there's no such thing as poor handling, just poor packing" you'll want a well protected job possibly with insurance. If you can drive for the pick up I strongly suggest considering it, shipping a soon to be repainted frame is not a concern IMO. New paint is soft and even with a few hours of 130*F baking the surface can show rubs and compressions from packing if not really well done.

There's at least one person on BF who was involved with the Trek frame building back in their USA years. It would be interesting to see their take on this. I had the pleasure to work on a frame I had contact with during its making, about 40 years later. I enjoyed the repair and "correcting" the insults it had seen. I only charged materials as the time was paid for by the experience. The frame ended up being powder coated and has no decals. Had I been the primary builder 40ish years ago that would have been different! Andy.

Thanks Andy,

I am trying to do my best for what I believe is a great save with a worthy candidate for rebuilding.

Here is my decal set from what I can find in my photos.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3130b1f05c.jpg

Head tube badge is brass. The frame is a medium grey. The pearl bike I believe was another bike and not mine to be certain. I think that I grabbed that pic to see what it MIGHT look like. I deleted that photo.

The 700 series decals I am not even sure if I should put on it. I am not sure if it was a 700 or a 900 just not sure there what to do but I picked them up anyway JIK.

From what I have the decals would need to go between clears and the down tube and head tube stickers would need to be on top of the clear from what I am looking at.

For those that are curious why I am posting here in the frame building forum, I grabbed this Trek Reynolds 531 frame from a trash bin in around 1994/95. I had several spare components from previous bikes and got it assembled and started riding it again. I have just held onto it and have dragged it with me since then. Now I think that it is time to finish the work that I started and need some help.

I had a '70's 531 Carlton that my dad had given me because he wouldn't let go of his Paramount. The Carlton was sanded by me and I had it painted and re-brazed by Joe Bell in San Diego in 1988/89. The Carlton was an excellent bike to ride. My friends were all riding brand new aluminum Cannondale's at the time and I was still riding the old (new to me) bike and I still walked away in a better place from our centuries every time. I am looking for that same feel again.

I think that this Trek can do that.

No more centuries for me. I just want a good looking and riding bike.

Sorry about the picture that wasn't mine. I will have some better pictures tomorrow hopefully of a naked frame that needs some work.

Why is it that you need your painter to be a framebuilder or your framebuilder to be a painter? Sounds like you have a good (and likely inexpensive) painter on hand. What is stopping you from getting someone else to do the braze-ons?

It is like you're trying to find a landscaper that is also a plumber.

I don't. My painter is good but very slow to complete specialty projects when his primary job is automotive collision and repair. I can understand his priority.

I was able to pick up my frame today. Here are some photos. Please keep in mind that the bike has been sitting in his paint shop for months.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c98bbec737.jpg
Serial is 003500 for sure. I am not sure what the other stamping of "Z" is for.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...911536e2aa.jpg
Looks like an SR bottom bracket. Cable guides are above the bottom bracket unlike later models.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dd34a614d6.jpg
These are the braze-on's just stuck in place with tape. You can see the stay for the clamp-on shifter.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a5421bf6d3.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...db45086cd3.jpg
Braze-on front derailleur stuck on with tape.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e6a2eb8481.jpg
531 frame
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...676ff86c0f.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c36f21d6db.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cd82f9a582.jpg
This is Shimano SF.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bc191b73da.jpg
531 forks, fork drop outs are Shimano as well. Front and rear have rack stays.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...31fc34b722.jpg
This turned out ok. Just needed a little Brasso and a very soft toothbrush.

Serial #003500 would be an 1981 710 in 22" frame size - https://www.vintage-trek.com/SerialNos80_81.htm
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7f5782737.png

Edit: according to the first post in this thread https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...r-s-marks.html "Z" might be a builders mark for JohnDThompson

[QUOTE=michaelathome;23615403]I was able to pick up my frame today. Here are some photos. Please keep in mind that the bike has been sitting in his paint shop for months.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c98bbec737.jpg
Serial is 003500 for sure. I am not sure what the other stamping of "Z" is for.

[QUOTE=SoCaled;23618561]Serial #003500 would be an 1981 710 in 22" frame size - https://www.vintage-trek.com/SerialNos80_81.htm
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7f5782737.png

Edit: according to the first post in this thread https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...r-s-marks.html "Z" might be a builders mark for JohnDThompson

Thanks for that info. Funny to see that he is a member of the forum as well.

Went back and looked and the frame is stamped with an "A" in the back. Looks like that one was Mike Apple.

Michael

Just needed some cleaning to figure out how to get started.

Bought a Park 22mm crank puller and thanks to Sakae and a little bit of cleaning I have the bottom bracket size.

Now I can start looking for BB and cranks to replace the Campi NR set that was on it. I have not made any additional progress outside of that. I needed to know those sizes to figure out a component set. I have a few items from several but no one set complete.

Michael
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...068b47af6b.jpg

Here is the Z and the A

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2c5f9ff0eb.jpg