Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Framebuilders
Reload this Page >

How to build a lugged steel frame, with pics

Notices
Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

How to build a lugged steel frame, with pics

Old 03-20-08, 02:35 PM
  #26  
Lanky Lass
 
East Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
Posts: 21,434

Bikes: Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by alicestrong
Now how did I guess that you might say that?

But seriously, thank you. I know when I first read here that you built bikes I was very curious but I never did make it over to the Framebuilders subforum so thanks again for putting this together...

Now when they get that hemp based frame material perfected...
Very nice photo documentation!

Alice, you should visit the Framebuilder's forum--there is an awesome thread on building bamboo frames.

If not pink, then how about ummmm....red?

East Hill
__________________
___________________________________________________
TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...
East Hill is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 02:37 PM
  #27  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Cassave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodland Hills, Calif.
Posts: 1,671
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by alicestrong
Now how did I guess that you might say that?

But seriously, thank you. I know when I first read here that you built bikes I was very curious but I never did make it over to the Framebuilders subforum so thanks again for putting this together...

Now when they get that hemp based frame material perfected...
You're welcome. It's a good opportunity for me to answer the questions I get asked all the time:

No, it's brazed, not welded
Yes, you can buy lugs, tubes the whole deal
The fork blades come straight, I bend'em
It only looks old, I built it last month
etc.

Stay tuned. I'll build the fork in the next few days or so then on to the rear triangle.
Cassave is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 02:38 PM
  #28  
Lanky Lass
 
East Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
Posts: 21,434

Bikes: Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Cassave
It only looks old, I built it last month
etc.
"It's a classic style of bike, and I am a Keeper of the Flame, thank you.".

East Hill
__________________
___________________________________________________
TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...
East Hill is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 02:41 PM
  #29  
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 18,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked 100 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by Cassave
The fork blades come straight, I bend'em
How do you taper them?
roadfix is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 02:48 PM
  #30  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Cassave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodland Hills, Calif.
Posts: 1,671
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by roadfix
How do you taper them?
They come tapered, either through a simple drawing process using rotary dies
or "Pilger" process which uses rotary dies and an internal mandrel which provides better
material thickness control.

I'll be building this one with Pilger blades. Makes for a very nice riding fork.

Last edited by Cassave; 03-20-08 at 02:55 PM.
Cassave is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 02:52 PM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,698

Bikes: 1999 Norco ht mtb/2006 C'dale road bike/2007 Colnago CLX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wow, thanks!

If I have the space and equipment, I'll try to learn how to build up my own frame someday.
DaveSANYYZ is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 04:40 PM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
ronjon10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Topanga, but I'm not a hippy
Posts: 2,820

Bikes: IF Club Racer, Bike Friday Pocket Rocket

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That's really awesome.
__________________
just being
ronjon10 is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 05:15 PM
  #33  
don't try this at home.
 
rm -rf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,886
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 955 Post(s)
Liked 459 Times in 323 Posts
Originally Posted by Cassave
They come tapered, either through a simple drawing process using rotary dies
or "Pilger" process which uses rotary dies and an internal mandrel which provides better
material thickness control.

I'll be building this one with Pilger blades. Makes for a very nice riding fork.
Good pictures, thanks!

I found a page on Pilger mills. The rollers are asymmetrical. This page shows tubing diameter being reduced, not tapered. So a tapered tube would probably need a different roller shape.
Some applications, such as baseball bats and golf clubs, rely on cold pilgering to create the intermediate, tapered shape. Other applications are lightning poles, finned tubes, and nonround tubes with internal or external longitudinal ribs.
rm -rf is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 07:01 PM
  #34  
more spin, less brake
 
twowheeltom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Walnut, CA
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Will there be a 'How to build a jig for a bicycle frame' thread?
twowheeltom is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 07:04 PM
  #35  
Semper Fidelis
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,000

Bikes: Tiemeyer Road Bike & Ridley Domicles

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
probably not the best question, but is building a frame really that hard?
imo it seems to be very difficult and complicated especially with the lugs and angles.
HAMMER MAN is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 07:44 PM
  #36  
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,841

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 917 Times in 605 Posts
Originally Posted by HAMMER MAN
probably not the best question, but is building a frame really that hard?
imo it seems to be very difficult and complicated especially with the lugs and angles.
Depends on your definition of hard. It obviously takes some planning & calculating, but for me it was fun to do. I built a few in a similar fashion to the one here. Made my own fixture from thick aluminum flat plate, clamps, drill press and other basic hand tools. Nothing fancy or exotic required.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 07:45 PM
  #37  
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,841

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 917 Times in 605 Posts
Looks nice, but I was just wondering why so much flux in the non-joint areas ?? Doesn't that require extra cleanup ?
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Old 03-20-08, 10:51 PM
  #38  
Old Fogy
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Murray, Utah
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
White. Unquestionably the fastest!
waldowales is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 06:00 AM
  #39  
Semper Fidelis
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,000

Bikes: Tiemeyer Road Bike & Ridley Domicles

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Homebrew01
Depends on your definition of hard. It obviously takes some planning & calculating, but for me it was fun to do. I built a few in a similar fashion to the one here. Made my own fixture from thick aluminum flat plate, clamps, drill press and other basic hand tools. Nothing fancy or exotic required.
appreciate your reply.
Always wanted to try and build my own frame but I am not really mechanically inclined and I have no knowledge about welding. Just curious.
HAMMER MAN is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 08:07 AM
  #40  
Old & Getting Older Racer
 
Cleave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,343

Bikes: Bicycle Transportation: 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric, 2019 Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Hi Steve,

Classic (in every good sense of the word).
__________________
Thanks.
Cleave
"Real men still wear pink."
Visit my blog at https://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
Lightning Velo Cycling Club: https://www.lightningvelo.org/
Learn about our Green Dream Home at https://www.lawville.org/
Cleave is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 09:15 AM
  #41  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Cassave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodland Hills, Calif.
Posts: 1,671
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Homebrew01
Looks nice, but I was just wondering why so much flux in the non-joint areas ?? Doesn't that require extra cleanup ?

No. The idea is to flux past the heated zone so that no or little surface oxidation occurs.
The unmelted flux just washes off.
Cassave is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 01:03 PM
  #42  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SO CA
Posts: 189

Bikes: '79 Univega Sport Tour (not stock). Mid 80's Benotto, bring back to life. Mid 80's Univega Alpina Ultima (needs TLC, still built strong). Trek 400. Specialized Globe. DS Expert Ironman. Schwinn World Sport (soon to be a SS).

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by HAMMER MAN
probably not the best question, but is building a frame really that hard?
imo it seems to be very difficult and complicated especially with the lugs and angles.
The process is not hard. But it is hard to do it correctly and have the frame last. Its hard to do it correctly, have it appear perfect after painting, size correctly and have it ride and handle properly. The top custom builders in the country have a 5 year + waiting list (Sachs, Baylis, etc.) Even Sacha White (Vanilla Cycles) now has a 5 year waiting list and he is relatively new on the scene (compared to Sachs, Gordon, Baylis etc.).
Dunwood is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 02:03 PM
  #43  
Spit out the back
 
tinrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Silverlake, CA
Posts: 1,116
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Dunwood
The top custom builders in the country have a 5 year + waiting list (Sachs, Baylis, etc.) Even Sacha White (Vanilla Cycles) now has a 5 year waiting list and he is relatively new on the scene (compared to Sachs, Gordon, Baylis etc.).
Seems like there's a lot of demand for custom frames, but not nearly enough supply.

Classic macroeconomic problem.
tinrobot is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 05:19 PM
  #44  
shut up and ride
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: noho
Posts: 1,947

Bikes: supersix hi-mod,burley duet tandem,woodrup track,cannondale cross,specialized road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tinrobot
Seems like there's a lot of demand for custom frames, but not nearly enough supply.

Classic macroeconomic problem.
sort of... it's not that buyers want a lugged steel frame, it's that they want a Bayliss, or a Sachs or a Vanilla. so someone else can't just jump in an take up some of the demand.

questions:
threadless or threaded?
integrated shifting or downtube or bar end or jedi mind control or or or?
looks like you going with traditional seatstays as opposed to fastback
second water bottle mount?
any other custom touches like rack mounts, racks, fenders, pump peg, chain hanger?
looks like you're building general road racing frame, not sport touring or something else
zzzwillzzz is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 05:47 PM
  #45  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SO CA
Posts: 189

Bikes: '79 Univega Sport Tour (not stock). Mid 80's Benotto, bring back to life. Mid 80's Univega Alpina Ultima (needs TLC, still built strong). Trek 400. Specialized Globe. DS Expert Ironman. Schwinn World Sport (soon to be a SS).

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tinrobot
Seems like there's a lot of demand for custom frames, but not nearly enough supply. Classic macroeconomic problem.
When one owns a frame like a Brian Baylis or Richard Sachs, they have no peer. Kinda like a early 80's California Masi. Or an original Italian Colnago. Owners say there is a certain mystic to the frame, its unique ride and you had it custom made to fit you. With a very limited supply, the price goes up.

One could say that a 70's vintage Ferarri doesn't drive as well as say a new Corvette or Viper. But the price is still high. Anyone with money can buy a new Corvette. But get in line to obtain the latest Euro wonder car (insert Badge name here: )

One of the differences however is that Sachs and Baylis freely share their wealth of information to the other frame builders (they tend to hang out on the various Framebuilder sites). They have a five year waiting list, what do they have to lose? Don't think you'll find Bentley sharing information with Ferrari.
This isn't to say that there are not other competent high quality custom frame builders. Just that its not a Sachs or Baylis.
Dunwood is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 05:58 PM
  #46  
Magnesium Dogmatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,939

Bikes: Look 585 Ultra, Pinarello Dogma, Pegoretti Duende, Orbea, Cannondale Capo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This is really impressive. Thanks for sharing.
haimtoeg is offline  
Old 03-22-08, 04:54 PM
  #47  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Cassave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodland Hills, Calif.
Posts: 1,671
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by zzzwillzzz
sort of... it's not that buyers want a lugged steel frame, it's that they want a Bayliss, or a Sachs or a Vanilla. so someone else can't just jump in an take up some of the demand.

questions:
threadless or threaded?
integrated shifting or downtube or bar end or jedi mind control or or or?
looks like you going with traditional seatstays as opposed to fastback
second water bottle mount?
any other custom touches like rack mounts, racks, fenders, pump peg, chain hanger?
looks like you're building general road racing frame, not sport touring or something else
Hey Will;

Threaded,1" quill stem (got lots just sitting around)
Brifters, probably Chorus
Modified fastback stays, like my existing frames
2nd bottle mount - but of course
Other touches - yup, lots most will be polished stainless
General road frame true, parallel 73's, 58 cm.
Cassave is offline  
Old 03-22-08, 05:27 PM
  #48  
shut up and ride
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: noho
Posts: 1,947

Bikes: supersix hi-mod,burley duet tandem,woodrup track,cannondale cross,specialized road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i couldn't remember if your other bikes had fastback seatstays. don't some seat lugs have caps for the ends of the stays? they're not as graceful with the caps. a girl i rode with back in the 80's had a Cotten frame, with a wishbone seatstay, campy delta brakes and internal cable routing. they drilled a hole or slot in the seatpost for the brake cable to route through so that the cable was inline with the center cable mounting of the campy delta brake. it was/is the coolest and cleanest setup ever.

second bottle mount-i was just questioning it because your other bikes i've seen only have one.
zzzwillzzz is offline  
Old 03-24-08, 09:43 AM
  #49  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Cassave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodland Hills, Calif.
Posts: 1,671
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts
Continuing on.....Started the fork.

All the bits needed to make a fork.

The crown and steerer are fluxed and ready to braze...

Fully brazed and cooling.

Cleaned up and now milling the crown race seat to 26.4mm.

A finished fork crown and steerer assembly. Of course the crown will be high polish when it's done......

The fork blade bending tool with a straight blade ready to be raked

Done.

​​​​​​​The raked blades ready for assembly with the tips, then to be trimmed to length for assembly with the crown.

Last edited by Cassave; 12-02-22 at 11:38 AM.
Cassave is offline  
Old 03-24-08, 09:54 AM
  #50  
It is fantastic.
 
voltman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The OC
Posts: 7,977

Bikes: 05 Specialized Allez Elite; 06 Fuji Team Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just wanted to say British racing green.
voltman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.