Fontanvi

Hi there,
I'm trying to determinate an era for my italian handmade frame, unknown frambuilder but nicely done, and in italia for sure. It ight be between 1981 and 1986...
It has cinelli CMS lugs, campagnolo dropouts, columbus tubing (meaby SL) and and very strange/rare tecnociclo chainstay bridge : does any one know when this bridge came in production ?
Thanks !

IMG_5877 by DjangoCycle

Fontanvi

IMG_5871 by DjangoCycle

IMG_5896 by DjangoCycle, sur Flickr

Fontanvi

on www.framebuilding.com/index.htm

Fontanvi

before repainting


IMG_5933 by DjangoCycle, sur Flickr

unterhausen

this is more of a Classic and Vintage question than a framebuilding one. The bridge looks a lot like one of the cast Cinelli bridges of the era that has been filed a bit. Cinelli sold castings, they could get anything they wanted to be cast with little expense

The only thing that places an era is that bottom bracket shell, I think. It was sold in the late '70s, early '80s I think. The tangs were really pointed in the wrong direction and caused chainstay failures. Or at least that's what I have heard in C&V.

Andrew R Stewart 

Any more shots of the before respray? Are those double tapered seat stays? I forget when they became available. Does the fork's steerer have rifling in it's bottom? This frame could have been made nearly any year after the mid/late 1970s including yesterday. Andy.

unterhausen

I'm trying to figure out why you say this: "very strange/rare tecnociclo chainstay bridge." Any part that is currently available from Ceeway is hardly rare.

The only thing that is at all weird on there is the brake bridge reinforcements

Fontanvi

I did, and there some advices to ask right here about dating tecnociclo parts
well, thanks for your comment, what do mean exactly saying "chainstay failure", while welding or using it, hum ?

Fontanvi

i'm sorry, not a framebuilder even if i'm very interested in, im was meaning: in 80's frame, the tecnociclo part is not common, if rare - at least as long as i know -, i'never see it once since monthes i'm seeking this point.
The reinforcement ...hum it's the picture, the old painting was so badly done that they overpasssed the reinforcement trought the chrome.

Ignoto by DjangoCycle, sur Flickr

Fontanvi

mainly french frog's speaking, not sure i did well understand all your questions, but i'll try to answer
no more old blue paint shots except campa dropouts
the seat stay seems to be also cinelli CSM, but double tappered ones, don't know
no rifling on the steerer bottom - as the one of old columbus SLX you mean ? – as long as i know, i did look closely but there was some rust and i had to treat it. Only the colomb on the outer part of the steerer, and the initial of the framebuilder - "OT", a lot of guy could named themselves like that, by the way

IMG_5875 by DjangoCycle, sur Flickr

IMG_5876 by DjangoCycle, sur Flickr

Andrew R Stewart 

Double tapered stays- Seat stays are small diameter at both ends and large diameter at the brake bridge. A 1980+ design of Columbus. I doubt your frame's stays are by Cinelli. Perhaps the top caps, shaped ends at the seat lug, are.
Steerer rifling- Internal diameter ribs that Columbus claimed was better the none... The shot with Columbus Dove suggests the steerer is not SL or SP but maybe cromor, if there's no rifling.
"OT" could be anything from date code, serial number, size reference, manufacturer reference to custom buyer initials. Andy.

Fontanvi

thanks andy
it looks like double tappered indeed, but let me see closer.
Meaby your'e right about tubing material, but the frame is a little bit too light - well it's never anyway - to be cromor : 1.900gr frame + 650gr fork (2550gr) for a 54cm, instead a generic 54cm cromor frame should be at 2190 (tubeset) + 500/600gr lugs, bridges etc.

Andrew R Stewart 

Forks are not always made for a specific frame, or made at the same time, or made by the same company/person, or with the same grade of materials. Colnago, as example, was famous for their out sourcing aspects of their frame making. It's also possible that your fork had it's bottom section, that which had the rifling, cut off. I sure hope not as that also means that the bottom is now no longer as thick as the manufacturer (Columbus) designed the steerer to be. Andy.

Fontanvi

your'e right, but here the fork is done by the same builder, it has the same OT on the frame and on the steerer, whatever it could means.
I hope the steerer is'nt cut too much if it's the case !