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BB30 lugs

Old 05-04-08, 10:34 AM
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BB30 lugs

I hope we are going to be seeing some bb shells from the bb manufacturers soon with the BB30 specs.
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Old 05-20-08, 09:21 PM
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It would be nice, but the demand would need to be there, at this point, it would be hard to recoup the tooling costs. You could make your own.

Among the problems of utilizing BB30 in a lugged type BB shell is the post machining necessary, BB'd distort a bit, there are no parts that can be modified to help make things work, (such as spacers between the threaded cups and the bearings) The "press fit" region must be paint free, so rust will be a concern at the "edge". Yes, stainless steel and or a bevel can address some of this, just design time.

Still, outboard bearings are a workaround that is the band-aid approach. An larger diameter shell makes fitting big diameter down and or seat tubes easier...
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Old 05-30-08, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
Among the problems of utilizing BB30 in a lugged type BB shell is the post machining necessary, BB'd distort a bit, there are no parts that can be modified to help make things work, (such as spacers between the threaded cups and the bearings) The "press fit" region must be paint free, so rust will be a concern at the "edge". Yes, stainless steel and or a bevel can address some of this, just design time.

BB shells distort upon welding or brazing. That has nothing to do with the BB30 spec. It is common with all bb shells.
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Old 05-30-08, 05:04 PM
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how does one go about making their own lugs?
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Old 05-30-08, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JBD
how does one go about making their own lugs?

Well, I guess you could gas weld or Tig some tubes together. Then, cut them out in a shape of a lug. Too much effort, too little gain though. Just easier to buy the lugs that are already made.

Anyway, the BB30 shells are going to be picked up by Long Shen. And also, Paragon is probably going to make some next year. So, I'm hoping.
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Old 05-30-08, 08:43 PM
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that was what I had thought as I don't think many are too keen on nor capable of doing investment casting in their own shops.

Also, if one is to be welding/fillet brazing tubes together, why not build the frame as such.


pity, I was hoping making lugs would be easier than that.
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Old 05-31-08, 09:04 PM
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"Also, if one is to be welding/fillet brazing tubes together, why not build the frame as such."

There isn't much reason to use lugs at the best of times, except as a look. So if one wants the lugged look it's probably as worth while to have to do a little fabrication as any of the other time wasting involved.
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Old 06-01-08, 05:25 AM
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Lug builders are really keen on new technology and standards, so you should see a lugged BB30 BB shell in the next 30 years or so.

In the interim, all you need is a thick wall tube and a lathe.

None of this will matter of course when Shimano wins the new BB standard marketing war.
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Old 06-01-08, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Peterpan1
"Also, if one is to be welding/fillet brazing tubes together, why not build the frame as such."

There isn't much reason to use lugs at the best of times, except as a look. So if one wants the lugged look it's probably as worth while to have to do a little fabrication as any of the other time wasting involved.
I thought of this as I was typing, but decided to leave it in anyways...

to be perfectly honest, I think that if I wanted to build a frame with an unavailable lug, I would likely follow that route to maintain a uniform look.

Although it does seem a little odd to basically be making a potentially weaker part with what amounts to a 'sheath'


But who said anything about being rational
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Old 06-02-08, 12:18 PM
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"Although it does seem a little odd to basically be making a potentially weaker part with what amounts to a 'sheath' "

Absolutely.

The thing is though that a tiny fillet of silver will hold tubes together, not to mention a weld, not to mention that current cast lugs were once spurned and regarded as bad, etc...

As evil as welding is to the lugs crowd, it has to be better on a larger scale. So if you have a 1.125 tube joined by means of a weld in a 1.25 tube installed with life affirming silver or bronze you just know it has to be a step in the right direction, compared to welding that puppy down at the 1.125" tube end. Surely as heinous as welding is to some (though apparently melting and casting the alloy into a lug is just fine), there has to be some joint size that would end up providing enough surface area to mitigate the effects of using state of the art welding techniques? See? Lugs are always making it a better world to live in.
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Old 06-02-08, 12:37 PM
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I get the impression that you're a welder...

A bit of ignorance, how were lugs formed before they were cast?
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Old 06-02-08, 11:22 PM
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I can do all three, or in my case five if one throws in silver fillets and gas welding. But my main entry was from outside frame building so I am not really in any of the camps. I own, for instance, a Rockwell tester. I think if a lot of framebuilders who are serious on issues like heat and impacts on metal did any testing they would be reasured.

I don't fully know how lugs were made pre casting, and I am OK on casting. I believe the method involved forming them out of sheet metal, but I could be wrong. (did a little check and on Dave Moulton's site he says they were sand cast; then when materails improved they were stamped out of sheet metal; And now investment cast.
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Old 06-04-08, 11:27 PM
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Than you for the added information.
I think I recall reading that article a while back but didn't remember him saying the methods prior to investment casting.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your expertise from which you know all these different techniques?
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Old 09-17-08, 01:10 AM
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"If you don't mind me asking, what is your expertise from which you know all these different techniques?"

Just found this question while searching for info on sheet metal lugs...

The basic thing is a 30 year fascination with making stuff myself. I started with stained glass, fly tying, woodwork, boat building, boat design... It just keeps building. Some of these things have been dropped along the way, some I only did to save money and don't care about, like making my own sails. Just keep buying the tools, paying for the cost of my own shop, and keep slugging away at learning new techniques. Some stuff I am really good at, been doing it 30 years and it's there, other stuff is a struggle. Making bikes has been hard because to do it independantly is pretty expensive. Frame prep tools!! Torches!! I have a plan to get some money out, but I don't count on it.

Some of the activities are complimentary, like layout and design, but some of it is not. I may have picked up a new craft every year for thirty years. It takes longer than a year to do it, but over thirty years you can pick up a lot of stuff. If UBI can teach someone the basics of doing a frame in a few weeks, then think of how much stuff you can teach yourself in 30 years if your interest didn't flag, and you had the money.

Overall I wouldn't recomend it. I valued the idea of being widely skilled when I was a kid, the Renaissance idea. But society doesn't value this idea, not really. And it is getting worse as time goes on. The newest thing I have observed is the decline of materials. With stuff coming from china, and being sucked back there, it is sometimes hard to find local stuff, and more to the point it is rare for the home made stuff to be cheaper these days. At some point, even for pleasure, there are things one doesn't bother to do for oneself. It hasn't got that bad yet, but the trend line is there.
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