Framebuilding class recommendations?
 

I'm thinking about taking a class on building frames. I'm not interested in building frames for a living. I just want to build a frame or two for me and some friends. I'm interested in both lugged construction and lugless steel. I'd love to dabble in other materials, but the cost and knowhow make it out of my reach for now.

I have heard about the classes that Brew teaches. Has anyone taken classes there? Are there other suggestions?

For those of you who have, what kind of experience did you have before taking the class? I have never built a frame, but I have been a silversmith for many years, so I'm familiar with soldering (granted it's usually much smaller pieces I'm soldering). I have done a little bit of welding, but not enough that I feel comfortable with it yet.

There are quite a few threads on this subject in the archives. Did you try the search function yet?

I have not gone to a school, I taught myself because nothing was available in 1975. The three schools that look the best to me are Bohm, Doug Fattic, and UBI. I did entertain the idea of attending one of Doug Fattic's classes just to learn someone else's methods. You can never learn enough in my opinion. It seems really ridiculous not to have instruction since it is so freely available

Isn't the search considered broken?

http://www.meanoldcoot.com/assets/im...e-Old-Man1.jpg
^^^
The BF search engine.

I don`t know anything more about Brew than what`s on his website. Tim Sanner, who occasionally posts here, offers the least expensive framebuilding course I know of (although it sounds like you really get a lot for your money with any of these courses). Scooper went there, built himself a beautiful lugged frame, learned bunches, and had a good time. Unfortunately, it`s on the other end of the country from you and, from my knowledge of that area, probably pretty expensive lodging. Fattic or Bohm might cost you less overall, I don`t know much about that fellow with the Japanese name (Yamaguchi?), but he`s been touted quite a bit around here also. It seems to me that UBI offers inexpensive dorm room options- they`re the only outfit big enough to manage that. All are probably great ways to spend your vacation. I sure wouldn`t mind going to any of them- wish it had occcured to me when I was still single with time on my hands and money in the bank.

Another poster here (Mudboy or Tuz maybe?) came up with a perfect local option- called up a local framebuilder and arranged some kind of training sessions on a week by week schedule, which gives him time for the info to sink in and he doesn`t have to pay for a hotel. That sounds even better.

Or you could try just via internet and Paterek. That`s what I`m doing and it`s got to be miles easier than it was in preinternet days. It still takes a lot longer than a week and there`s nobody watching over my shoulder to make sure I don`t scrap my whole project in an instant with one dumb move, so it`s a bit of a gamble. Probably not for everyone, but worth considering, especially since you have some related experience.

I'll chime in here since I've been mentioned and teaching framebuilding classes is my day job. I went to apprentice in England in the 70's specifically to learn the secrets of the trade so I could tell others how to do it here in the States. I've been doing that since 1976. I took an extra year of college to get a Michigan state teaching certificate and later got a master's in education as well. Over the years, I've developed methods that I think work well so others can understand how to make frames. Teaching has always been my passion just like making or painting frames.

Back when I started doing these classes most students just wanted to make a frame instead of buying a Colnago or something. Now the majority want to learn how to make more (but usually just on a hobby basis). That makes even a 2 week class shorter than many would like. Next week I start a 3 week class in which we can devote more time to finish work and then paint the frames in class. I teach other classes of various lengths.

I don't know Steve Garn at Brew personally. From information I have gathered he tries hard to have his students have a good experience making a personal frame with his help. His strategy, as I understand it, is to do the difficult parts so it only takes one week and still get good results. My goals are quite a bit more ambitious in that I'm teaching so that a student knows enough to make more.

A number of my students have already taken classes from Eisentraut, Yamaguchi or UBI. It wasn't that they were unhappy with those experiences but they realized they needed to learn more. I'm very aware of how those other classes are conducted and what they do well and what they don't cover. My ambition for my classes is the same as when I built or painted frames. And that is to do the very best job possible so there isn’t any lack or disappointment when compared with the competition. I don't believe all classes are equally well taught (in the same way not every custom frame has the same quality).

I always want to be respectful of those that only use a Paterek manual and the internet to learn how to build frames. We all should honor the passion and not criticize those with less resources. However I believe the very best way to learn is from an instructor that not only fully understands the craft but methods to teach as well. This can greatly shorten the learning curve. In every class I make literally hundreds corrections that if left unattended would reduce the quality of the finished result. This is particularly true with brazing. I know all the beginner tendencies and what needs to be done to compensate for them.

Lodging and travel are part of the budget equation. In the furnished house next to my shop is both bedroom and less expense sleeping bag space. Write me at <dougfattic@qtm.net> for more complete information.

Doug Fattic
Niles, Michigan - just north of South Bend, IN and 100 miles east of Chicago. It is an Amtrak stop (as is South Bend) and just off of I-80. There is a bus shuttle from the Chicago airports to the South Bend airports every 2 hours. Sometimes it is as cheap to fly into South Bend.

Yes, with very little success. It's pretty common knowledge among vBulletin administrators that the search on version 3.0 is a joke.

Thanks. I'm getting ready to send you an e-mail right now.

For now, this is just something I want to do as a hobby. I don't foresee building frames for others (except maybe one for a friend or something). I definitely don't want to do it for a living. It's just something that I want to experience myself. I have Tim Paterek's videos and book, so I'm not completely uneducated on the process, but I really only know what I saw and read, which really isn't much. As good as the videos/book are, obviously they are no substitute for hands-on experience, which is what I want.

rodar y rodar, yes, that was me. I'm having a great time, learning a lot, and I think I'm actually impressing my "mentor"...supposedly a notoriously cranky guy, but this week he gave me accolades for (a) the file work on my fork crown ("How'd you get it so flat?"), (b) the thinning work I did on my lugs, and (c) my torchwork. Made me feel OK about my progress. I take him a 4 pack of good Belgian beer every couple of weeks, so perhaps that's helping. Anyway, to the original poster, I would suggest giving your local framebuilder a call and see if you can work something out. I do one evening a week, for a couple of hours. I paid for all materials and provide my own silver (I never realized how expensive it was...) and flux, and I've bought myself a set of good files and some emery cloth so I can do "homework" -- this week, it's cleaning the flux off the fork and the BB and doing some filing. On top of that, I pay him $15/hr for his time, which really is a great deal, all things considered. I'll probably end up having spent under $1000 for a great frame and 1 on 1 tutoring throughout the process. I'm already thinking about building my next frame...

Doug, cool story, and I really respect your pursuit of the education aspects of framebuilding. I'm a high school teacher; I teach English and Computer Science (long story, but I'm certified in both and then some), but I did a little show and tell with the Materials class in Tech Ed, and a bunch of the students were really enthralled with the creative aspects of framebuilding. Unfortunately, the HS where I teach really doesn't have any metalworking capabilities, so there probably won't be students building bike frames anytime soon.

There aren't any local framebuilders in my town that I know of. Well, there is one guy that builds frames and he's about two blocks from my house, but he's only built a handful of frames, and when I talked to him at a show, he didn't seem too interested in helping me.