What about twisted frame tubes?
03-16-11, 12:46 PM
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What about twisted frame tubes?
I can't find any threads on this; but I see more and more examples of steel and maybe titanium(?) frame builders doing this. Good idea?
Can they add a lot of stiffness to a frame without adding weight?
Is there any directionality to the added stiffness?
Which are the most important tubes to do this to- if you were going to do it?
Can they add a lot of stiffness to a frame without adding weight?
Is there any directionality to the added stiffness?
Which are the most important tubes to do this to- if you were going to do it?
03-16-11, 04:18 PM
#3
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I would think the chainstays , mainly?
Twisting forces in mechanical structures are called "Torsion".
Twisting forces in mechanical structures are called "Torsion".
03-16-11, 07:25 PM
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there is no benefit to the "twisted" tubes, and in fact a round tube of similar cross-section and wall thickness is stronger and stiffer. This is sophomore engineering. These tubes are a marketing gimmick, pure and simple.
03-16-11, 10:04 PM
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Tubing with a square cross-section (and a twist in the case of Lynskey's Ti Helix OS) provides significantly more torsional stiffness than round tubing of the same dimension (e.g. 31.7mm x 31.7mm x 1.0mm wall thickess square vs. 31.7mm O.D. round x 1.0mm wall thickness) at only a slight increase in weight. IOW, round has about 60% of the torsional stiffness of square, and weighs about 20% less than square in round numbers. It's a legitimate trade-off in applications where torsional stiffness is important.
https://mnhpva.org/tech/frame_tubes.html
https://mnhpva.org/tech/frame_tubes.html
03-16-11, 11:49 PM
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Same term influences both bending and torsional stiffness, back in the day we called it moment of inertia, but a lot of people call it second moment of area.
you're misreading your data. It's hard to state without making some nit-pickable error, but you have to use more material in a square to get more stiffness. Granted, if all you have is a limited amount of space (and that space is square) and are willing to go with more weight, you can get a stiffer tube. The twisted tubes really give up the advantage of the square because their outer dimension is more like a round tube.
The other issue with square corners is the potential for cracking, which has been reported on some frames. Additionally, for thin-wall tubes, the beer can bending modes may significantly reduce stiffness.
you're misreading your data. It's hard to state without making some nit-pickable error, but you have to use more material in a square to get more stiffness. Granted, if all you have is a limited amount of space (and that space is square) and are willing to go with more weight, you can get a stiffer tube. The twisted tubes really give up the advantage of the square because their outer dimension is more like a round tube.
The other issue with square corners is the potential for cracking, which has been reported on some frames. Additionally, for thin-wall tubes, the beer can bending modes may significantly reduce stiffness.
Last edited by unterhausen; 03-16-11 at 11:56 PM.
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