Frame #830
 

So I have finlly started another frame after a long lay off. My Flicker site will have the progress and text for each photo. My focus will be more on the process then the result. Here's a teaser shot showing the inside of the drive side drop out and chain stay.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=281744

Very cool, I'm really looking forward to it, thanks for sharing the process. Is that #830 as in 830 frames built? Please post a link here to your Flicker site.

Brian

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7319558...7631892556165/

Brian- Here's the link. I thought I had included it before, but guess the electronic mites ate it...

There's no way I've built 829 frames. I have finished 37. It's a simple system. In 1978 I figured that i'd never build more then 999 so i added a place and reversed the build number. So far I'm on pace to do 4 or 5 dozen.

Check out the other sets. Some are frame specific, some are shop/tool focused, some have nothing to do with bikes at all. Andy.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=282251Another evening of playing around. Here's a photo of some of the tools I used. Andy.

So....fork blade rake bender, blocks(indexed with finish nails) to hold blades, right so far? What's the light metal used for? thanks

the light metal piece has markings to measure the rake.
Andy, thanks for posting these. The filing on the dropout is really clean.

Calstar- Eric has it right for the rake checking board/angle strip. But the wood blocks are for squeazing the chain stays oval for tire or ring clearance. The nails have two functions. The outside pairs are so the blocks sit in the vice jaws at the right height so the nestled stay is centered on the jaws. The inner pair are the pilots and shafts to align the two blocks. The inside of the blocks have been hogged out in a hour glass shaped recess. Place the stay inside the block lengthwisw where the stay needs greatest squishing and close the vice to suit. Remove, check and repeat as necessary.

Eric- Thanks for the compliment. But wait till you see things after brazing. Getting the brass just right in the scallop is the hard part for me. I'll do a couple more practices before i go and tackle the real stuff. Andy.

Andy -- that's why the dynafile was invented, too much brass and then -- zip -- dynafile to the rescue. Not many people leave the stay ends as brazed. I have ambitions of being able to do the "sagged" style of stay end that the French guys used which is the exception to that statement. I saw some pics from Eric @ Winter Bikes where he pulled it off perfectly and I'm jealous.

Eric- The sagged look is what I've sought out for years, with varying success. When I was building at Cyclery North I got pretty ok at it. My method is to fill up the stay end fairly well, let it solidify then use the flame to pull the brass down into the stay. Now a days I'm not so good at it. Like so much of this stuff practice and frequent torch work really helps. Andy.

What's the purpose of the little "peg" on the rear dropout, does it keep it centered in the cs when you're brazing? thanks, Brian

Brian- (and a thanks for your real name. If more offered this the interweb might be more civil...). The little build up/peg on the inside of the rrh rear drop out's chain stay tab is to help fill the gap left between the drop out and the stay end AS MITERED FOR COG CLEARANCE. I file the inside of the stay back to allow the cassette to clear the end of the stay during removal. On this bike I probably could have not mitered the inside quite as far as I did, these days my high gear cogs are 12 or even 11 teeth (not 14 or 13) largely becauce you can't get a cassette starting with anything larger then a 12 (9 speed) and still not be a racing spread (cassettes for juniors use to be available in a 15 tooth to meet gear restrictions and still work with a 53T ring). So back to the tab's add on- With so much stay mitered back the drop out's tab doesn't fully reach past this miter amoount. So I could have done a lot of filling with brass during the brazing to plug such a large gap that didn't have a "floor" but exrtended to the outside of the stay. Instead I decided to make a plug attached to the tab. It looks like it will work out far better then i was planning. I'll still have to file down the inside miter and make it flow into the drop out's inner surface but now the time, effort and amount of brass used during the brazing is greatly reduced.

One of the cool things about having done building for so long, even though not many actual frames have been done, is that it has given me a lot of time amd exposure to others' solutions to challenges that come up. This idea of having some steel filler between the drop out tab and the stay end is not mine. I first heard of it back when Reynolds 753 came onto the market. The builder had to use Silver fillers so to not disturb the strength of the finished frame. Fine for the lugged joints but not for drop outs. So many would shape a steel insert to close up the gaps and be able to get away with Silver.

Your question about whether this tab locates the drop out in the stay during brazing is a good one. But, as you'll see soon, I have a fixture to hold the drop outs and stays/blades in position during the brazing.

BTW have you looked at my Flicker site? There are many more photos with discriptions. Also there are other frames build processes shown in other sets. Some of your detail questions might already be answered there. Andy.

Yeah Andy, I checked out your first pics there and then didn't until today where I did indeed have several questions answered. I'm most strongly a visual learner so I love this stuff, I'll be keeping up to date from this point on. Good explanation of the peg, another bit of data added to my knowledge base.

Brian

I'm impressed by the simplicity of your jigs and holders, everything looking very nice. This is a great tutorial; 15 years ago this type of info/knowledge sharing was not even imagined by most. I'm now paying attention to the text with your flicker pics so I most likely won't be asking any more redundant questions(but that doesn't mean I won't have questions). Brian

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=285551http://www.flickr.com/photos/7319558...7631892556165/

More steps done. Filing past brazing. Starting the new to me use of a fork jig and S&S coupler set up. Here's a shot of one pf the steps. Andy.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=286067Stay caps, ST/shell aligned. Comments about alignment. Andy.

Hi Andy,
Looking great! So this will be a travel bike? I like the idea. I'd be interested to hear your perspective how you like using the S&S couplers - it would be extremely handy to add some in to one of my bikes (or build a new frame with them) to make air travel easier.
Cheers,
Neil

Neil- My actual use take on S&S coulpers will be a long way out. First the bike needs finishing then a trip with it has to happen. But i do have experience with other bikes and packing with couplers through the shops i've worked in.

For sport bikes the S&S travel option is pretty nice. The bike is basicly the same that you already are use to. The packing is, while a bit time consuming, easy to do and ends up being both well protected and low cost (to fly with). Your trip does need to start and finish in the same place (or the suit case will have to be transported to the finish). But for loaded, self contained camping, trips i find the coulpers are less the advantage. Mostly because all the rest of the gear and racks/fenders. The "all in one suit case" is then no longer the case. Still the next time i build a touring frame it will have couplers if possible.

The frame I'm building now is a sport touring design. It will accept racks and fenders but will run only 28mm tires at the widest. It also has traditional tube diameters, a loaded touring bike will want slightly oversized tubes. Andy.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=287434I've added a bunch of photos to my Flicker site.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7319558...7631892556165/
Here's the finished couplers. There's a shot of the before on the site. Big difference. I've begun to set up the jig but have to chase down a few millimeters dangling here and there before I can set the lug angles and miter tubes. Andy.

Looking great Andy. Very nice tutorial sequence and excellent photos to boot(does anyone use this expression anymore?:)).

There's a bunch more photos on the Flicker site. Included is some of what went wrong... Andy.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=289217http://www.flickr.com/photos/7319558...7631892556165/

More photos loaded and captioned. Includes fork aligning and another mistake. Here's a shot of the mistake in process. Andy.

Great stuff. How do you attach the fork holding fixture to the surface plate so it doesn't tip over, a bolt up through the plate? What is the surface plate, a table saw table or actual surface plate? And yes, the chain peg does make more sense where you placed it, sort of a "doh!" moment. thanks, Brian

Brian- The fork clamp is a Brighneli, a bit crude but very effective. I'm gaining respect for Joe's stuff. (The back story for this is an off list one...).

The surface plate is a cast steel one. 24"x36" and hand scraped, there's a decal stating the flatness per foot on it. Purchased used for a tool dealer in Cleveland for a B-day present. Put a hole in the interior of my car getting home! I have drilled a few holes in it to bolt the fork clamp and the BB post down. The drilling went far easier then I thought it would.

The plate is one of the best tools I have gotten. Having a real surface as a reference is a big help to know what you're doing. It makes you so much more aware of how metal and heat react. It lets you put numbers to what you otherwise only see as cracks of light between parts. It grounds you. But it won't replace skills and technique.

One of the focae that i have had over the years is how braze ons are dealt with, and the resulting cable/brake/water bottle routing/positioning issues. The chain peg is only a small example of this anality. I place my cable stops at angles that reflect the cable's actual path. Not the tube centers. Painters have called me to question my 'crooked' stops... Andy.

Those are quite simply beautiful! Great fitting.

Nice work man!