Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Framebuilders
Reload this Page >

Acceptable Filler Materials?

Notices
Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

Acceptable Filler Materials?

Old 04-01-13, 10:30 AM
  #1  
Gdogpdx
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Acceptable Filler Materials?

Are there are any accepted fillers for filling small inconsistencies at a joint? Low temp solder or epoxies (bondo?). This notion of filling with anything other than metal makes my toes curl a little but this is not for anything structural only slight blemishes. I would be interested to know how other builders handle these types of things.

Thanks in advance.
Gdogpdx is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 03:02 PM
  #2  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 15,037

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Raleigh Pro, Trek Cycle Cross, Mongoose tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2967 Post(s)
Liked 1,251 Times in 878 Posts
Many techniques exist to fill gaps, pock holes and dents. Which to best use depends. Does the filling need to be heat resistant like in powder coating baking? How about "sand" blasting resistant? Will there be any metal plating done?

Bondo is probably the easiest but not too durable to heat and abrasives. Solder works well too but is soft. Brazing filler is perhaps the best if there's to be blasting or plating done after. many builders will use filler rod as it's already there and who knows how the frame will be treated in the future. Andy.
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 05:08 PM
  #3  
Gdogpdx
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Many techniques exist to fill gaps, pock holes and dents. Which to best use depends. Does the filling need to be heat resistant like in powder coating baking? How about "sand" blasting resistant? Will there be any metal plating done?

Bondo is probably the easiest but not too durable to heat and abrasives. Solder works well too but is soft. Brazing filler is perhaps the best if there's to be blasting or plating done after. many builders will use filler rod as it's already there and who knows how the frame will be treated in the future. Andy.
I'm planning to paint this frame, no powder coat or plating involved. What solder, if any, will bond to steel without reheating the joint to full brazing temp?

Thanks in advance.
Gdogpdx is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 07:57 PM
  #4  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 15,037

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Raleigh Pro, Trek Cycle Cross, Mongoose tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2967 Post(s)
Liked 1,251 Times in 878 Posts
Solder typically doesn't need the temp level of brazing. Common plumbing (lead based) solder only needs around 450*F. Clean all just like brazing, flux where you want the solder to stay and practice first. Andy.
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 04-01-13, 10:08 PM
  #5  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 21,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 1,332 Times in 966 Posts
I see no issue using silver brazing filler
unterhausen is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 10:50 AM
  #6  
Gdogpdx
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Solder typically doesn't need the temp level of brazing. Common plumbing (lead based) solder only needs around 450*F. Clean all just like brazing, flux where you want the solder to stay and practice first. Andy.
I did a little experiment last night with a tin/silver solder on a scrap tube and made a nice blob no problem, with minimal heat. It files nicely, very hard and is definitely adhered to the steel.
Gdogpdx is offline  
Old 04-02-13, 12:42 PM
  #7  
ksisler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,726
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
[SUP][/SUP]
Originally Posted by Gdogpdx View Post
Are there are any accepted fillers for filling small inconsistencies at a joint? Low temp solder or epoxies (bondo?). This notion of filling with anything other than metal makes my toes curl a little but this is not for anything structural only slight blemishes. I would be interested to know how other builders handle these types of things.

Thanks in advance.
Ah...just saying; Pull the tube out and cut another one to fit better/correctly? The too-short tube can be recycled without loss for another later frame that is a cm or so smaller.

Sorry I digressed without understanding the context as you stated it.

Yes, as long as the area is cleaned well a bit of bondo can be wiped in with the tip of the finger to fill a little cosmetic blemish. This is probably covered in some other forum on "body work" for cars. A bit of filler is much perferred to attempt to reheat the joint and add more brass, imho.

fwiw; /K
ksisler is offline  
Old 04-03-13, 12:26 PM
  #8  
MassiveD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
The first or second welding job I did was new handles for my garden shed. The design consisted of angle iron to which I attached some rod. Made a very attractive handle, but more importantly a much stronger one than the plastic pieces one was expected to trust when secured with a padlock. The handle was nice, the welds where horrific. So I bondoed them with 5 minute epoxy and some microballoons. 10-15 years has gone by and the look is perfect, nothing has pulled away or cracked. I would not normally trust 5 minute to have the adhesion.

While there is a prejudice against fillers, one I share given the adhesion issues with steel, it is still pretty common to fair these surfaces. I would not do it on a customer bike, because of reasonable expectations, and the fact that frames work quite a bit more than garden shed handles, but I might try it on one of my own bikes. It seems to be cool enough to bond structures to metal these days, just not to fill pinholes. Admittedly there is a difference between wrapping a tube with carbon to take the load off, and filling holes. The wrapped structure is not going to spall off... But the the pinhole fix is not going to fail catastrophically which is not always my feeling about some of the carbon/Al parts...
MassiveD is offline  
Old 04-03-13, 12:31 PM
  #9  
MassiveD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I remember when this guy used to show up on Monster Garage. I love how he makes a living filling with lead, and that cigar is always there... I woul dhave died at 45 with that combo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ_85fp1avs



I didn't watch that particular segment, but I love how the guy's main fixtures visible in the opening segment are stolen milk crates!
MassiveD is offline  
Old 04-03-13, 12:41 PM
  #10  
MassiveD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
"When they took the mercury out of it, it wouldn't work good..." Classic!
MassiveD is offline  
Old 04-03-13, 08:02 PM
  #11  
Cassave
Senior Member
 
Cassave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodland Hills, Calif.
Posts: 1,669
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 9 Posts
I love watchin' old farts do their stuff.
Re-lit his cigar with the torch. LOL.
Cassave is offline  
Old 04-03-13, 08:45 PM
  #12  
Mark Kelly 
Senior Member
 
Mark Kelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Willy, VIC
Posts: 644
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


Car bog seems to have worked well enough for Cinelli.
Attached Images
Mark Kelly is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Mr IGH
Framebuilders
3
12-01-17 06:15 PM
rhm
Framebuilders
28
08-25-16 04:31 PM
evilcryalotmore
Framebuilders
2
03-25-12 07:43 AM
umi
Framebuilders
29
10-10-11 10:37 AM
look171
Framebuilders
11
01-26-11 01:16 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.