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-   -   Help me build this bike! (https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders/892416-help-me-build-bike.html)

Komeht 05-28-13 10:18 PM

Help me build this bike!
 
I am in love love love with the concept for this bike - a super stylish, light, modern (but retro in a cool way) English roadster.

http://vickersbicycles.co.uk/handmad...ster-bicycles/

The only problem is - the L (853 Reynolds) will run close to 6K dollars if you can manage to get one shipped across the pond. So - I'm thinking I could find or have a frame made and then build it out over time.

Question 1 - As for frame - I'm guessing the easiest way to duplicate that frame is to just have one made. The key parts being 1. lugged steel chromoly construction. 2. Quality tubing (Reynolds 853 or equivalent).

Question 2 - perhaps there is frame out there that I could search for - any suggestions?

Best I can tell - below is the list of components. The one big substitution I would probably make is to put a Alfine 8 or similar rear hub instead of the SRAM automatic. Not tied to any particular component, but am to the overall look of the bike (any smart substitutions that don't detract from the look would be appreciated - except I'm definitely sticking with brooks B17 saddle).

SRAM automatic two-speed hub
Schmidt SON delux front dynamo hub
Schmidt SON Edelux front lamp
Nitto all rounder bar
Technomic stem
Technomic S65 seatpin
Tange Seiki bottom bracket
Tange Seiki headset
Brooks England B17 Imperial Saddle
Matching leather bar tape
FSA Gimondi chainset
MKS sylvain road pedals
Ambrosia Excellence
Sapim laser spoke shod
Continental Gator Hardshell Tyres

Thoughts? Suggestions? How much would it cost to reproduce (more or less) this bike?

unterhausen 05-29-13 06:19 AM

no, I think that's the only company that has lugged steel frames...

None of the stock bikes with track dropouts I can think of have lugs, so if the price is really out of your range then custom is probably the way to go. Or just find a classic steel frame with horizontal dropouts and modify that. The bikes that one is modelled after didn't have rear-facing dropouts, they had horizontal front facing dropouts

busdriver1959 05-29-13 05:27 PM

If you google "NAHBS photos", you will probably find a number of North American builders doing similar types of city bikes. The prices might still be pretty high though. Good quality frames aren't cheap. Fixed gear frames from China would be cheap but wouldn't have fender clearance. A number of large manufacturers are putting out retro lugged steel but again, the ones I've seen are road racers with little room for fenders. A vintage 3 speed could be a good starting point but wouldn't be as nice as an 853 frame. The bottom line is, a large budget will be needed unless you can compromise on the quality of the frame.

Komeht 05-29-13 08:16 PM


Originally Posted by busdriver1959 (Post 15681970)
If you google "NAHBS photos", you will probably find a number of North American builders doing similar types of city bikes. The prices might still be pretty high though. Good quality frames aren't cheap. Fixed gear frames from China would be cheap but wouldn't have fender clearance. A number of large manufacturers are putting out retro lugged steel but again, the ones I've seen are road racers with little room for fenders. A vintage 3 speed could be a good starting point but wouldn't be as nice as an 853 frame. The bottom line is, a large budget will be needed unless you can compromise on the quality of the frame.

Definitely a ton of interesting bikes on NAHBs.

Understand good quality frames don't come cheap. Are there a few custom frame makers you could recommend who would do a lugged steel frame with high quality tubing and leave room for fenders. Or wondering if someone has made a cyclocross frame that might be able to be retrofit to work.

bikemig 05-29-13 08:37 PM

You sound like a need a Rivendell. One of those models will work for you and it will be easy enough to build it up with the parts gruppo you want. And the complete bike won't cost you $6k: http://www.rivbike.com/category-s/788.htm

unterhausen 05-29-13 09:33 PM

there are an abundance of stock bikes that are just like that one that are significantly cheaper. That's not really a subject for this particular forum, maybe the general forum would be better

As far as custom builders, there are probably 20 guys in Portland alone that will build you a nice city bike. On the east coast, I can think of Circle A, Tom Palermo, Ant, MAP. I like Bishop a lot. The people that run the oregonmanifest are a batch of *****************, but the people that participate are pretty good: http://oregonmanifest.com/constructors/
Most framebuilders know how to space out a frame for fenders. Some guys don't really build bikes like that, you have to know your builder. Looking through the bikes they have made tells you that sort of thing. Anyone that builds a randonneuse will be able to replicate your bike. You are going to have to work a little harder to find a builder than you have to date.

Komeht 05-29-13 10:41 PM


Originally Posted by bikemig (Post 15682606)
You sound like a need a Rivendell. One of those models will work for you and it will be easy enough to build it up with the parts gruppo you want. And the complete bike won't cost you $6k: http://www.rivbike.com/category-s/788.htm

The Roadeo looked like an interesting option - couldn't tell from the website what tubing they use - but it looks like Waterford builds the frame. . .so. . .why not a Waterford 22-series artisan?

Checked it out - man-o-man - I think a waterford with the empire custom lugs which have a nice art-deco touch to them might be just the trick. . .

http://waterfordbikes.com/w/bikes/lu...e-custom-lugs/

Any idea what a frameset would run?

Sixty Fiver 05-29-13 10:56 PM

The Vickers has some pretty steep angles for a roadster.

A great classic choice would be a Raleigh International... 531 frame and Nervex lugs would be a great base for an upright riding city bike that you would not be afraid to ride.

An example:

http://bikecult.com/works/archive/07...hinterRTrs.JPG

Mark Kelly 05-30-13 12:59 AM

1 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=320053


Or talk to Renold Yip at YipSan, seems to pay more attention to city bikes than anyone else. IIRC he won best in show at NAHBS with a city bike a couple of years ago.

Doug Fattic 05-30-13 08:38 AM

Nomeht,

It is not ideal to convert a frame designed for drop handlebars to upright handlebars. Your hands, and as a result, your whole body is going to be in an entirely different position. This backward rotation requires a much slacker seat angle. The old Raleigh and Schwinn 3 speeds (what we used to call "English Racers") have it right with 70 or 71 angles. Sometimes even less. If you try upright bars with a common 73 seat tube angle you will find it more uncomfortable than a frame made to sit you further back.

It is self serving to say this and so I apologize in advance for the suggestion but that kind of bicycle is often made in one of my framebuilding classes. The only problem with copying your example is that beginners can't braze stainless lugs. They require more skill to do successfully and one can't recover if they make a mistake. The solution would be to use regular steel lugs or have Herbie or I braze stainless ones for you. Most students who take my class have every intention of making more but some just want to make something for themselves. In my 3 week class there is even the opportunity of painting the frame. Plenty of my students have blogged about their experiences online. One of the latest that painted his cyclo-cross frame in class has pictures and descriptions under the blog title Pacacyerm (a fancy word for elephant). You can find it (and the others) by googling.

Doug Fattic
Niles, Michgian

ksisler 05-30-13 09:17 AM

OP; Until you actually find/build/assemble the ideal frame/bike, the several bikes that others posted pictures of that look very nice; I will add that this one looks very impressive for the urban commuter/day rider/hybrid/zoom around bike.

http://www.amazon.com/ORIGIN8-FRAME-MIXTI-MIXER-54cmPLTNM/dp/B007HOEK0S/ref=sr_1_1?s=cycling&ie=UTF8&qid=1369926634&sr=1-1&keywords=mixte+frame


One of the true best values in chromo I have seen in a long time. They ride very well also.

/K

ksisler 05-30-13 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by Komeht (Post 15678816)
I am in love love love with the concept for this bike - a super stylish, light, modern (but retro in a cool way) English roadster.

http://vickersbicycles.co.uk/handmad...ster-bicycles/

The only problem is - the L (853 Reynolds) will run close to 6K dollars if you can manage to get one shipped across the pond. So - I'm thinking I could find or have a frame made and then build it out over time.

Question 1 - As for frame - I'm guessing the easiest way to duplicate that frame is to just have one made. The key parts being 1. lugged steel chromoly construction. 2. Quality tubing (Reynolds 853 or equivalent).

Question 2 - perhaps there is frame out there that I could search for - any suggestions?

Best I can tell - below is the list of components. The one big substitution I would probably make is to put a Alfine 8 or similar rear hub instead of the SRAM automatic. Not tied to any particular component, but am to the overall look of the bike (any smart substitutions that don't detract from the look would be appreciated - except I'm definitely sticking with brooks B17 saddle).

SRAM automatic two-speed hub
Schmidt SON delux front dynamo hub
Schmidt SON Edelux front lamp
Nitto all rounder bar
Technomic stem
Technomic S65 seatpin
Tange Seiki bottom bracket
Tange Seiki headset
Brooks England B17 Imperial Saddle
Matching leather bar tape
FSA Gimondi chainset
MKS sylvain road pedals
Ambrosia Excellence
Sapim laser spoke shod
Continental Gator Hardshell Tyres

Thoughts? Suggestions? How much would it cost to reproduce (more or less) this bike?

OP; BTW, to refer to 853 Reynolds as "chromoly" would not be recommended anywhere near a Reynolds employee for fear of possible bodily damage. Reynolds 853 is a far more complex (and more capable) alloy. They might take offense and beat on you with a stick of Columbus tubing. [;)

/K

Komeht 05-30-13 08:07 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 15682957)
The Vickers has some pretty steep angles for a roadster.

A great classic choice would be a Raleigh International... 531 frame and Nervex lugs would be a great base for an upright riding city bike that you would not be afraid to ride.

An example:

http://bikecult.com/works/archive/07...hinterRTrs.JPG

This might work - thanks!

Komeht 05-30-13 08:22 PM


Originally Posted by ksisler (Post 15684143)
OP; BTW, to refer to 853 Reynolds as "chromoly" would not be recommended anywhere near a Reynolds employee for fear of possible bodily damage. Reynolds 853 is a far more complex (and more capable) alloy. They might take offense and beat on you with a stick of Columbus tubing. [;)

/K

I shall be sure to avert their gaze should I ever cross one on the street.

Doug Fattic 05-31-13 03:41 PM

I should mention one other difference (besides seat tube angle) between a frame designed for drop/road handlebars and upright ones. Because the rider's hands are coming back towards the body with upright bars, the top tube needs to be longer than when the hands are going further forward gripping road bars. The difference is probably somewhere around 2 centimeters. In other words if a person was properly positioned on a road frame with drop handlebars that has a 56cm top tube, they would want at least a 58cm top tube on a Dutch or English style bicycle with upright bars.

The sweptback M shaped bars used on traditional 3 speeds are, in my opinion, better for tooling around town than the more common MTB handlebars that are more straight with a 5 to 10 degree bend. Your hands are in a more natural, comfortable position. Americans are more familiar with mountain bikes and so probably would pick that style of handlebar first without having studied and tried the difference. I took my clues about this kind of bicycle design from the Europeans that have a long tradition of using them.


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