Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Framebuilders
Reload this Page >

Reynolds 725 Tubing. Quality stuff?

Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

Reynolds 725 Tubing. Quality stuff?

Old 02-05-14, 10:11 PM
  #1  
aprieto28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 184

Bikes: Kuwahara Tandem, Centurion Ironman, Rossin, De bernardi, Schwinn Paramount, Giubilato, Gitane TDF, Medici, Scott Solice.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Reynolds 725 Tubing. Quality stuff?

I have a Rodriguez Rainier built with Reynolds 725 tubing. Where does that stand in the Reynolds family?

Last edited by aprieto28; 02-05-14 at 10:14 PM.
aprieto28 is offline  
Old 02-05-14, 11:40 PM
  #2  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,491

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Not counting Reynolds stainless steel tubesets (953 and 931), 725 is just below the top-of-the-line 853 in terms of UTS and yield strength. It's very good tubing.



__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 02-06-14, 12:20 AM
  #3  
rebel1916
Senior Member
 
rebel1916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,010
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garbage. Send it to me for proper disposal.
rebel1916 is offline  
Old 02-06-14, 08:28 AM
  #4  
aprieto28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 184

Bikes: Kuwahara Tandem, Centurion Ironman, Rossin, De bernardi, Schwinn Paramount, Giubilato, Gitane TDF, Medici, Scott Solice.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Wow, whata difference in opinion. Does anyone else have an opinion of the quality of the tubing.
aprieto28 is offline  
Old 02-06-14, 09:09 AM
  #5  
triathloner 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Grand Rapids MN
Posts: 233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Good stuff, Rebel is joking
triathloner is offline  
Old 02-06-14, 09:12 AM
  #6  
Dave Kirk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bozeman MT
Posts: 200

Bikes: Kirk

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It's the real deal. Build/buy with confidence.

dave
Dave Kirk is offline  
Old 02-06-14, 08:49 PM
  #7  
Rudebob
Member
 
Rudebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Um, isn't 725 just 4130 chrome-moly steel? Also, based on the chemistry, 931 appears identical to 17-4 precipitation hardening stainless steel. Both of these a pretty common fabricating alloys.

'bob
Rudebob is offline  
Old 02-06-14, 10:08 PM
  #8  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,491

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rudebob View Post
Um, isn't 725 just 4130 chrome-moly steel?
Essentially, yes. 725 and AISI 4130 alloys have the same chemistry. 725 is heat treated for greater strength.

Originally Posted by Rudebob View Post
Also, based on the chemistry, 931 appears identical to 17-4 precipitation hardening stainless steel.
It is. 931 raw material is Carpenter Technology Custom 630 which is AISI 630, UNS S17400, or 17-4PH.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 10:08 AM
  #9  
Rudebob
Member
 
Rudebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
Essentially, yes. 725 and AISI 4130 alloys have the same chemistry. 725 is heat treated for greater strength.
Right, but the specs on the Reynolds 725 is just a mid range temper for the alloy that could certainly be procured (or achieved by subsequent heat treat) in 4130 as well.

I am new to this forum but not cycling in general. While I don't post much (pretty much never) I do lurk on a few threads including the framebuilder section as I have an interest in fabrication and have an extensive background in metallurgical testing. It seams to me a lot of people get caught up here with certain materials and suppliers. While Reynolds supplies good materials and has a niche in the cycling industry, in reality, any premium alloy for cycling is also very likely good for use in other applications as well (motorsports, aerospace, etc.) and is therefore, likely readily available. My point, is these are not "magic metals"-don't get caught up so much on one material supplier and the special alloy designation but focus on the alloy equivalent. You may find other viable options in terms of choice, availability and cost.

While I am not ready to go out build myself a frame yet, if I do it will be made from 17-4. While a little heavier, it is easy to fabricate, age harden to a broad range of tensile properties, dimensionally stable, decent corrosion resistance, and I have access to lots of material.

Just sayin'

'bob
Rudebob is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 10:55 AM
  #10  
aprieto28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 184

Bikes: Kuwahara Tandem, Centurion Ironman, Rossin, De bernardi, Schwinn Paramount, Giubilato, Gitane TDF, Medici, Scott Solice.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
So if i understand rude bob. there may not bee much differnence between this 4130 tubing and the 725 tubing?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
002.jpg (41.9 KB, 483 views)
aprieto28 is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 12:29 PM
  #11  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,491

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by aprieto28 View Post
So if i understand rude bob. there may not bee much difference between this 4130 tubing and the 725 tubing?
The numbers are in the comparison between Reynolds 525 and 725 in my first reply. 525 is not heat treated 4130 chromoly while 725 is heat treated chromoly. 725 is stronger, so the tubes may be drawn with thinner walls, making them lighter. The downside of thinner walled tubing is that it's not as stiff as thicker walled tubing of the same diameter and is at greater risk of getting dented in use.

Most builders prefer to use heat treated tubing rather than post heat treat a frame built of annealed tubing because of the high risk of warping the completed frame out of alignment during the heating process and the difficulty of cold setting heat treated tubing back into alignment.

So no, they're not the same. 725 (heat treated) is different from non-heat treated 525 chromoly. It's similar to comparing heat treated 853 to non-heat treated 631 even though they have the same chemistry.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 03:56 PM
  #12  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,408

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 183 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6705 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 122 Times in 103 Posts
Quality in comparison to what ? good is good. ? you got yield strength data and alloy composition .



you got the tube OD, and wall thickness data the builder used, OP, ?

TI Reynolds has been around a long time, must be doing something right ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-07-14 at 06:56 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 04:09 PM
  #13  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,491

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
He's trying to learn, and I think should be applauded for that.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 04:52 PM
  #14  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,736
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1004 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by Rudebob View Post
While Reynolds supplies good materials and has a niche in the cycling industry, in reality, any premium alloy for cycling is also very likely good for use in other applications as well (motorsports, aerospace, etc.) and is therefore, likely readily available.
Since Reynolds is an experienced tubing supplier for bicycle frame building the correct diameters, wall thickness, taper and tube lengths are readily available to OEM as well as custom frame makers. One can make life easy, any Reynolds tubeset built by a good craftsman will be a "good" or even a "great" frame.

The last custom frameset that I commissioned was built w/ a mix of wall thicknesses from two "sets" of tubing to get the feel I wanted: light & lively but solid in the sprint. Fork blades, TT, ST, seat stays from set "A", DT and chain stays from set "B" were an easy recipe to concoct since they were in the supply chain.

No doubt there are similar materials available but not necessarily manufactured in the correct spec(s) and readily available at reasonable cost in the quantities custom frame builders use. Good luck & have fun when you build yours.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan

Last edited by Bandera; 02-07-14 at 05:21 PM.
Bandera is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 05:06 PM
  #15  
Rudebob
Member
 
Rudebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
So no, they're not the same. 725 (heat treated) is different from non-heat treated 525 chromoly. It's similar to comparing heat treated 853 to non-heat treated 631 even though they have the same chemistry.
That seems to be true, whereas Reynolds appears to identify their tubing by both alloy and final condition to a unique number, however, 4130 is still the same material alloy, regardless. The condition is usually referenced after the alloy type such as 4130 annealed, 4130 normalized, or for heat treated 4130-XXX KSI or XX Hardness.


For reference:
The Reynolds 725 appears to be the very similar at 4130 150KSI.
The Reynolds 525 appears to be similar to 4130 SR (Stress Relieved) but without hardening (austentizing/quench & temper).


‘bob
Rudebob is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 06:16 PM
  #16  
Chris Pringle
Senior Member
 
Chris Pringle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Pearl of the Pacific, Mexico
Posts: 1,265

Bikes: '12 Rodriguez UTB Custom, '83 Miyata 610, '83 Nishiki Century Mixte (Work of Art), '06 Specialized Epic Marathon MTB

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
R+E Cycles (A.K.A. Rodriguez Bikes) makes really fine bikes. Reynolds 725 is VERY GOOD. It is often used by custom builders because of the very good weight/sturdiness ratio. My understanding is that doesn't have the antirust qualities of higher-end quality tubing. R+E takes care of that by using anti-corrosion sprays in the insides before shipping/assembling the frame. Paint takes care of the exterior. R725 is also a tad heavier than the top quality stuff Reynolds sells (e.g., a frame could be from 0.25-0.5 lb. compared to the higher-end tubings.) R+E seems to prefer True Temper OX Platinum and S3 tubings for their lightest top-notch frames. Another fine builder that commonly prescribes Reynolds 725 is CoMotion. They charge more.

I own the Rodriguez UTB (26"-wheeled world tourer.) The frame is really light even with S&S couplers. When I first got it, it also gave me the impression that it would easily dent due how thin the walls are. After two years, however, I am happy to report that it's actually very sturdy and have not dinged the frame in spite of riding in not-so-nice roads in Mexico.

May I ask how do you like your Rainier?
Chris Pringle is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 06:27 PM
  #17  
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Posts: 27,266

Bikes: See my sig...

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My Blizzard hardtail (725) is almost as light as my rigid Moulden which is Tange Prestige and 853.

The bike has been bombproof... the feel and performance is off the hook.

Sixty Fiver is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 08:54 PM
  #18  
aprieto28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 184

Bikes: Kuwahara Tandem, Centurion Ironman, Rossin, De bernardi, Schwinn Paramount, Giubilato, Gitane TDF, Medici, Scott Solice.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I really like my Rainier. I just got it. It's a 2011 show room floor model 10 speed with up graded Camy Velocy derailures, WTB-V seat and Sefras tires. I got it at a discounted price. It's much lighter that my previous Bianchi Volpe.
aprieto28 is offline  
Old 02-07-14, 11:03 PM
  #19  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,491

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It sounds really nice. I'd love to see some photos.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 02-10-14, 11:58 AM
  #20  
aprieto28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 184

Bikes: Kuwahara Tandem, Centurion Ironman, Rossin, De bernardi, Schwinn Paramount, Giubilato, Gitane TDF, Medici, Scott Solice.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts


2011 Rodriguez Rainier. Reynolds 725. Bottle opener standard equipment.:lol:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
001.jpg (105.7 KB, 530 views)
File Type: jpg
002.jpg (100.1 KB, 510 views)
File Type: jpg
003.jpg (100.5 KB, 500 views)

Last edited by aprieto28; 02-10-14 at 01:11 PM.
aprieto28 is offline  
Old 02-10-14, 05:10 PM
  #21  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,491

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Very nice; thanks for the pictures.

With that uncut steerer, it looks like you're still experimenting with the handlebar height.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 02-10-14, 05:54 PM
  #22  
Chris Pringle
Senior Member
 
Chris Pringle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Pearl of the Pacific, Mexico
Posts: 1,265

Bikes: '12 Rodriguez UTB Custom, '83 Miyata 610, '83 Nishiki Century Mixte (Work of Art), '06 Specialized Epic Marathon MTB

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by aprieto28 View Post
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2011 Rodriguez Rainier. Reynolds 725. Bottle opener standard equipment.
Very nice Rod Rainier! Congrats!

Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
Very nice; thanks for the pictures.

With that uncut steerer, it looks like you're still experimenting with the handlebar height.
R+E usually ships their bikes with a very long steerer for the user to experiment with handlebar height for best comfort. It doesn't look sharp, but once it's cut, there's no going back.

Aprieto: I suggest taking your time to cut the steer tube. If you absolutely can't stand the looks, I suggest starting with 2" above the handlebar. Once you find the optimal height in 6-12 months, cut it again leaving 1" above the handlebar. Conditioning/fitting changes over time. What seems comfortable now might not be the same in the distant future. You'll be happy later if you leave a bit of wiggle room.

In my personal experience, the only way I've found whether a handlebar height (and the rest of the fitting) is adequate is by doing rides over 60 miles. Nearing the 60-mile mark, it is normally when one starts having issues (i.e., pains, discomfort.) Adjustments will need to be made back at home. If the bike is comfortable after a century ride, for example, that's a really good sign that your fitting is right.
Chris Pringle is offline  
Old 02-10-14, 09:17 PM
  #23  
aprieto28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 184

Bikes: Kuwahara Tandem, Centurion Ironman, Rossin, De bernardi, Schwinn Paramount, Giubilato, Gitane TDF, Medici, Scott Solice.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Your right about the steerer tube guys. I'm experimenting with the height. This bike is a perfect all-rounder for me. It's a keeper, and I do want to get the handle bar height right, leaving a little room to adjust as I grow older and can't quite get in that tuck position any longer.
aprieto28 is offline  
Old 02-11-14, 02:48 PM
  #24  
Tim_Iowa
Senior Member
 
Tim_Iowa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 1,651

Bikes: 1997 Rivendell Road Standard 650b conversion (tourer), 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10 (gravel/tour), 2013 Foundry Auger disc (CX/gravel), 2016 Cannondale Fat CAAD 2 (MTB/winter), 2011 Cannondale Flash 29er Lefty (trail MTB)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by aprieto28 View Post
Your right about the steerer tube guys. I'm experimenting with the height. This bike is a perfect all-rounder for me. It's a keeper, and I do want to get the handle bar height right, leaving a little room to adjust as I grow older and can't quite get in that tuck position any longer.
Good call. Extra height gives you versatility if you want to switch handlebar styles, too. I.e., switch from drops to flat bars to swept back bars.

And I concur on Reynolds 725, it's good stuff. I have three bikes of lugged, heat-treated steel (Reynolds 753, Tange Prestige, and Excelle Eco) and they're all excellent, 18-25 years later.
Tim_Iowa is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.