Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Framebuilders
Reload this Page >

brake seatstay mount on the backside instead of top?

Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

brake seatstay mount on the backside instead of top?

Old 09-07-14, 06:41 AM
  #1  
Medic Zero
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Medic Zero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver,Washington
Posts: 2,276

Bikes: Old steel GT's, for touring and commuting

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
brake seatstay mount on the backside instead of top?

.

Spotted this on a bike recently, and I think I've seen it done that way once or twice before.



Anyone reason why this isn't more common? There's a couple of ideas I have, but they are just speculation, I imagine some of you frame-builders know why, if there's any technical reason.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
00303_bNvpUCfSxoy_600x450.jpg (39.2 KB, 61 views)
Medic Zero is offline  
Old 09-07-14, 08:40 AM
  #2  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,423

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1693 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Tradition, mostly. In the case of the bike in the picture you provided, it allows the straddle cable to pass around the seat tube without interference.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 09-07-14, 10:54 AM
  #3  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,928

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6833 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 214 Times in 178 Posts
It's a U brake Too . the other place they put them was under the chainstays..

BMX bikes that use U brakes on the rear top of the seatstays also have the cable pulling from ahead of the seat tube..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 09-07-14, 11:54 PM
  #4  
Medic Zero
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Medic Zero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver,Washington
Posts: 2,276

Bikes: Old steel GT's, for touring and commuting

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
It's a U brake Too . the other place they put them was under the chainstays..

BMX bikes that use U brakes on the rear top of the seatstays also have the cable pulling from ahead of the seat tube..
Yeah, I've had and seen MTB's that have U-brakes under the chainstays. Supposedly, when set up right, they are quite powerful. I didn't know that and cut off the mounts and a friend welded in canti bosses in the usual place, so I've never actually used a U-brake there. Seems common in the years right around '89.

No reason the odd position I originally asked about couldn't be a cantilever though.

I was just wondering if there were any technical disadvantages to that placement other than perhaps harder to service. I figured it was a combination of tradition and meeting peoples expectation of where the brakes should be mounted. If there's no disadvantages to it, I'm surprised someone hasn't reprised it recently to stand out or in an attempt to make the bike appear "cleaner" or less cluttered looking.
Medic Zero is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 06:44 AM
  #5  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 18,240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 29 Posts
under the chain stays was apparently a horrible place due to crud buildup. I have seen people say that under the seat stays doesn't work that well, but I don't recall the reason.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 07:05 AM
  #6  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,928

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6833 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 214 Times in 178 Posts
Just found a picture, not your bike?
Wouldn't speculate on the service convenience of your bike. if it were.. Burn them off and put cantilever bosses on..

world touring Ian Hibell's bike did something along those lines
http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/ianhib...2_files/10.jpg
http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/ianhib...2_files/04.jpg

of course there have been others, just not mass production manufacturers..

I have the rear cantilevers ahead of the seat stays on a frame I built in 1977.
Had to use the short arm Mafacs to get heel clearance.


planning to have something built like that?


Noted under the chainstay U brakes Pad wear tended to be ignored, then the brake pads wore a hole in the tire sidewall .

So actually being up where you could do a safety check easily, could be better

Last edited by fietsbob; 09-08-14 at 09:10 AM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 08:42 AM
  #7  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 11,654

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Raleigh Pro, Trek Cycle Cross, Mongoose tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1731 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 32 Posts
Under the chain stays location was bad for a few reasons. Two not yet mentioned are that the pads are close to a lubed chain (and how many chains get over lubed then splat lube out) and also look at a pro wrench's hands if he's had to service an under CS mounted brake. Like mine there will be small scars from the ring teeth...

As for mounting a SS mounted brake under the stays- this has been done for years. Brake reach is different on either side of the stays. cable routing is different too. Andy.
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 09:09 AM
  #8  
duanedr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Under the chain stays location was bad ..... look at a pro wrench's hands if he's had to service an under CS mounted brake. Like mine there will be small scars from the ring teeth...
I hated working on those dang things. They were always corroded and gunked up and in a tight space which made adjustment more difficult and painful. So,not only was the likelihood of doing the safety checks diminished but the fear of finding that work was needed was another reason to ignore them!

And then they started adding Anti Chainsuck Devices which took up more of that real estate.

I think one of the benefits was that they were on bigger tubes so, there was less flex than on thinner seatstays .
duanedr is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 09:14 AM
  #9  
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Posts: 27,266

Bikes: See my sig...

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My touring bike has a chainstay brake... it works exceptionally well on a bike that sees cleaner riding conditions and less mud than an mtb.

You do have to be attentive to the pad wear and oil contamination has not been an issue, these brakes are fine for people who pay attention to such things and maintain them which excludes a good percentage of the riding population.
Sixty Fiver is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 09:26 AM
  #10  
tuz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto/Montréal
Posts: 1,193

Bikes: Homemade mixte, track, commuter and road, Ryffranck road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Routens did it too in the 50's



from Bikeville thoughts: Yellow Jo Routens Touring/Camping bicycle

I like the idea routing the cable like that, it goes in straight line which should improve the braking feel. However, it's likely more difficult the adjust/install the brakes in this position.

I did something similar but with the brake in the normal position. Cable goes trough the seat tube and post.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_20140704_084734.jpg (89.5 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg
IMG_3958.jpg (102.0 KB, 35 views)
tuz is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 09:48 AM
  #11  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 18,240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 29 Posts
my thesis is that just about everything in this regard has been tried many times. If something isn't done, then it probably wasn't a good idea.

The tri-geeks are bringing back chainstay mounted brakes because of aero.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 01:15 PM
  #12  
Cynikal
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 6,014

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tuz View Post
Routens did it too in the 50's



from Bikeville thoughts: Yellow Jo Routens Touring/Camping bicycle

I like the idea routing the cable like that, it goes in straight line which should improve the braking feel. However, it's likely more difficult the adjust/install the brakes in this position.

I did something similar but with the brake in the normal position. Cable goes trough the seat tube and post.

I'd love to see the finished version of the last photo. Really interesting routing. I'm assuming that you had to drill through the seatpost?
Cynikal is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 01:29 PM
  #13  
tuz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto/Montréal
Posts: 1,193

Bikes: Homemade mixte, track, commuter and road, Ryffranck road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks. Yes I'll have to drill though the post... not a big range for saddle heights It hasn't been painted yet. It's been done before, I got the idea from J. Heine's Herse which uses a roller behind the lug.
tuz is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 02:23 PM
  #14  
Cynikal
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 6,014

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Very nicely done. I've seen other examples on CX frames but I liked your method.
Cynikal is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 03:18 PM
  #15  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,928

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6833 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 214 Times in 178 Posts
if you look at the 2 pictures linked in 6 (Someone can imbed them if they wish).. running the cables around the seat tube wotks too ..

I just put the Arch for the brake housing stop above the brakes on the same side .. It works fine..



I got the seatpost drilled. my father, retired Machinist made a little ball-roller that slipped inside the seat post to smooth the cable motion

eliminating the regular hanger off the seat tube clamp bolt.. On the AlAn Cross super .. 25.0 Campag super record if anyone needs one .
fietsbob is offline  
Old 09-08-14, 03:28 PM
  #16  
likebike23
Rides Majestic
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Westfield, MA
Posts: 1,357

Bikes: 1983 Univega Gran Turismo, 1970 Schwinn Super Sport, 2001 Univega Modo Vincere, Self-Built Nashbar Touring, 1974 Peugeot U08, 1974 Atala Grand Prix, 1986 Ross Mt. Hood, 80's Maruishi MT-18

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
With a brake in that position you would be limited to a long transverse cable. If you wanted to increase mechanical advantage by shortening the Transverse cable with that setup you'd be SOL.
likebike23 is offline  
Old 09-14-14, 03:58 AM
  #17  
Medic Zero
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Medic Zero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver,Washington
Posts: 2,276

Bikes: Old steel GT's, for touring and commuting

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Just found a picture, not your bike?
Wouldn't speculate on the service convenience of your bike. if it were.. Burn them off and put cantilever bosses on..

world touring Ian Hibell's bike did something along those lines
http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/ianhib...2_files/10.jpg
http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/ianhib...2_files/04.jpg

of course there have been others, just not mass production manufacturers..

I have the rear cantilevers ahead of the seat stays on a frame I built in 1977.
Had to use the short arm Mafacs to get heel clearance.


planning to have something built like that?


Noted under the chainstay U brakes Pad wear tended to be ignored, then the brake pads wore a hole in the tire sidewall .

So actually being up where you could do a safety check easily, could be better
Pic is from a Craigslist seller.

Idle curiosity on my part.
Medic Zero is offline  
Old 09-14-14, 04:02 AM
  #18  
Medic Zero
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Medic Zero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver,Washington
Posts: 2,276

Bikes: Old steel GT's, for touring and commuting

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by likebike23 View Post
With a brake in that position you would be limited to a long transverse cable. If you wanted to increase mechanical advantage by shortening the Transverse cable with that setup you'd be SOL.
Ah! This might be the biggest disadvantage I've seen so far. One of the ways I get the most out of cantilevers is by going to an adjustable straddle carrier and running it as low/wide as I can.
Medic Zero is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
LateStart
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
6
11-20-13 02:44 PM
Lexi01
Road Cycling
33
01-24-12 03:52 PM
edono411
Bicycle Mechanics
1
08-11-09 11:55 AM
Dyermaker
Classic & Vintage
6
06-04-09 08:59 PM
taylor8
Touring
3
09-09-05 10:56 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.