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Can True Temper OX Plat tube sets be lugged?

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Can True Temper OX Plat tube sets be lugged?

Old 09-08-14, 05:28 PM
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mr9iron
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Can True Temper OX Plat tube sets be lugged?

Are there versions of the True Temper OX Plat tube set, and or S3 tube set that can be made with lugged frame construction? Most diagrams I see seem to describe the tubes as being elongated and seemingly not suited to lugged construction. The down tube to the shell in the images I have seen indicate non- tubular draws.. But it does seem that the top tubes, seat tubes, and head tubes, are suited to a lugged option..

any reply appreciated..

J
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Old 09-08-14, 06:08 PM
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in general, true temper makes tubes that have short butted sections. I find going through the catalog to be draining, so it's been a while. However, I recall that OX-plat has a full compliment of round tubes

my understanding is that S3 is oxplat, so the difference is a matter of tube thickness. Like I said, you have to be careful to get the right butt lengths so that the haz is not on the tapered section, that would be bad.

Last edited by unterhausen; 09-08-14 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 09-09-14, 08:54 AM
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Also, the S3 tube set has an oval top tube which won't work with a lug. You can substitute a OX Plat top tube that fits the lug.
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Old 09-09-14, 09:39 AM
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Yes the "HOXPLATxx" tubes seems to generally be round with sizable butts.
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Old 09-09-14, 06:36 PM
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Thanks everyone, appreciate the replies.

I have done a couple Verus frames with success, all the builders however, have warned me not to attempt an OX plat frame version. They said getting the heat right for the .5 butts is tricky... If I try the OX tubes is there anything I need to be aware of? Seems like you would just have to keep the heat as even as you could while brazing.. are they worried that the end butts could get too hot and go south?

thanks guys..

J
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Old 09-09-14, 08:53 PM
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J- Is this frame for yourself? If so then you might as well start practicing with disposable tubes of the right walls to dup the OX Plat ones. Will you be using silver or brass? Some builders only use the OX Plat for the TT and DT. The ST and HT need reaming/facing so many use softer Verus for them. There's not too much weight bennies with heat treated stays. Are you building your fork? I wouldn't try bending OX Plat blades on a home made rig. Lastly the aligning after complete brazing of heat treated frames can be far more stressful and damaging so your process is even more critical. But the actual brazing isn't that much more hard if you already have good heat control. Andy.
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Old 09-09-14, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
J- Is this frame for yourself? If so then you might as well start practicing with disposable tubes of the right walls to dup the OX Plat ones. Will you be using silver or brass? Some builders only use the OX Plat for the TT and DT. The ST and HT need reaming/facing so many use softer Verus for them. There's not too much weight bennies with heat treated stays. Are you building your fork? I wouldn't try bending OX Plat blades on a home made rig. Lastly the aligning after complete brazing of heat treated frames can be far more stressful and damaging so your process is even more critical. But the actual brazing isn't that much more hard if you already have good heat control. Andy.
Yes the frame would be for me. I do use silver for brazing, simply because it is what I know. To compensate for my lack of skill and experience I rely on a jig I build (from my tool making experience) to compensate for accuracy. The MDF jig allows me to move the torch freely at the joints to keep an even heat going. I have been fortunate also due to the jig, not to have to do much cold alignment. I use destaco clamps with just a touch of light pressure. Most of my work goes into the geometry of my jig vs really knowing how to handle the tubing material..

I like your idea of practicing on .5 butts on some test tubes. So really in your opinion it is not so much the brazing but the hardness, and cold working that are disadvantages.. Yes a verus head tube is a good call if this material is too hard to machine..

Appreciate the reply..

J
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Old 09-09-14, 10:23 PM
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I was just looking at the Henry James True Temper price list, and all the OX Platinum tubes seem to have at least 0.7mm butts?





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Old 09-09-14, 10:29 PM
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J- So you seem to braze the entire joint while the tubes are in the jig? Looks to be good torch control if you can do this in a MDF jig w/out scorching the jig. I've built in a number of jigs over the years and never found that I got as straight a frame as I could if I only tacked in jig, aligned on a plate then finish brazed out of the jig. That you can suggests that you have good heat control, as well as a jig that handles the distortion with heat and cool cycles.

Yes to the thinking that the hardness and wall thinness is more the issues then the materials take to brazing. It's not stainless steel after all. Andy.
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Old 09-10-14, 08:05 AM
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I guess you are referring to the 0.6-0.4-0.5 seat tubes (the other round tubes have 0.7 butts as shown in post 8). I did use one on a recent lugged built. It think it's intended for TIG since the butt is so short (30+40); it's barely enough to cover the lug so there will be some HAZ in the transition. But since the seat tube is well supported it should be okay... until it cracks I guess... I used silver to limit distortion + the HAZ and I did not need to ream the tube.

Edit: I noticed the HS3TTR tube... it might work but a 0.5 wall at the HT is not something I'd want...

Last edited by tuz; 09-10-14 at 08:43 AM. Reason: added info
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Old 09-10-14, 08:18 AM
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My observation is the number 1 most likely place for a crack is at the seat tube/bb joint, so that's probably not the place to skimp on material. Strangely, the other place is at the seat stay/seat tube junction, but I think that's because it isn't taken seriously
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Old 09-10-14, 08:31 AM
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I've had a couple of frames crack on the ST side just below/behind the stay/lug. I attributed this to the multiple heat cycles and the section changes (from the thin tube to the thicker lug with stay). And of course my inexperience at maintaining good heat control. I've felt down inside many frames' STs and have felt the tell tale bulge outward of the ST just below the lug from too much heat.

But as I suggested if the ST were Verus and of a .9/.6 wall then this junction would be no different then done before. I wonder how many decaled OX Plat frames aren't more then the TT and DT. Andy.
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Old 09-10-14, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
J- So you seem to braze the entire joint while the tubes are in the jig? Looks to be good torch control if you can do this in a MDF jig w/out scorching the jig. I've built in a number of jigs over the years and never found that I got as straight a frame as I could if I only tacked in jig, aligned on a plate then finish brazed out of the jig. That you can suggests that you have good heat control, as well as a jig that handles the distortion with heat and cool cycles.

Yes to the thinking that the hardness and wall thinness is more the issues then the materials take to brazing. It's not stainless steel after all. Andy.
Yes, my mistake I thought they were .5 butts, but most are .7, I think with the comments I have received, using some verus tubes such as HT and ST would be wise. I was hoping to get a (56.cm) frame that was maybe 3.5lbs 1600g. This is kind of an experiment for me but probably a pricey one but i think even with some versus tubes, I could hit that mark..

On the tack.. so I build my jig so that the support is mainly resting on the middle range of the tubes. And when I clamp, it is the most finger sensitive light clamping possible, I actually want the tube to be able to "move".. so with all the clear "real-estate" at the joints and just the ever so feather light clamping I can move the torch freely around the joints. I try not to use too much heat just enough to get the silver going and just work clock-wise or counter clock-wise around the lug.. Who knows if it is a good joint, it's hard for me to tell, but so far I have had good luck on the verus, who knows maybe I'll fly too close to the sun on this project I have more experience on my house soldering plumbing fixtures than I do bike frames

any more input is welcome.. oh and BTW I was going to order the parts from the Henry James site that has bee copied here.
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