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Silver, Did I use it appropriately?

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Silver, Did I use it appropriately?

Old 10-02-14, 03:03 PM
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bill meyer
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Silver, Did I use it appropriately?

I did my entire first frame using only Silver, 56 for lugs, but 45 for the seat stays and brake bridge. Seems most use brass in those two locations, I assume for it's increased strength and better gap coverage.



I've got about 1000 miles on this frame, no problems, but I'm a stick figure compared to most folks. Now that I'm building a frame for my Dad I'm starting to question my process.

My main concern is whether or not this is safe. Also, if I did use brass on the Seat stay's, won't the high level of heat remelt the already silvered seat lug joint?
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Last edited by bill meyer; 10-02-14 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 10-02-14, 04:20 PM
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unterhausen
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I am uncomfortable with silver for brake bridges, although if you use something that will build a decent size fillet it shouldn't be a problem. I think your fillets are a little small on the bridge.

Your seat stays look fine. I don't see anything wrong with silver there. You probably want to make a groove in the seat lug for the stay to sit in to increase the surface area between the two surfaces.
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Old 10-02-14, 04:27 PM
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Many frames have and will be made using silver to attach the SS to the ST or the brake bridge within the SS. Assuming (yes I know what that means...) proper prep and brazing I wouldn't be worried. But I would (and I do) file a small relief into the side of the ST lug so that the SS will nestle in one spot and have more surface area with a proper fit/gap.

If you're still worried then build a test joint using the same techniques as with the frame and test to failure. Remember that the stresses that this joint sees is mostly shear with a little bending.

But you're right that brass will have a greater gap filling capacity. It also tolerates less clean prep.

I do my joint in steps using both brass and silver. I brass the lug on the ST and TT. I brass any stay cap on. Then I silver the stay on the lug. Way back when I had more temp control issues and had a silvered lug bleed out silver when brazing on the stays. So I adopted this method. Andy.
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Old 10-02-14, 05:09 PM
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bill meyer
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Great advice, thank you both. Andy, I like that seat stay method, I may try that next go around.

Last edited by bill meyer; 10-02-14 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 10-03-14, 01:02 AM
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Not that there is anything wrong with your stay joint, but if you want a stronger joint, try a wrapover style:

Here is a modernish looking one:




Or here is a more classic look:

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Old 10-03-14, 08:30 AM
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I have built many hundreds of bikes using silver for everything but where the stays meet the drops and never had a single failure. Brazed well it will last a lifetime.

dave
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Old 10-03-14, 01:58 PM
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bill meyer
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Thanks Dave! Maybe some larger fillets around the brake bridge area for extra confidence.

As for a wraparound stay, something to strive towards, but just getting my caps on and keeping it all together on this frame was hard enough..
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Old 10-03-14, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Your seat stays look fine. I don't see anything wrong with silver there. You probably want to make a groove in the seat lug for the stay to sit in to increase the surface area between the two surfaces.
A couple swipes with a round file works pretty well for this.
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