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New steel

Old 02-04-15, 10:33 PM
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Pendergast
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New steel

I wonder how this stuff is going to work out. Strength to weight ratio of titanium at 1/10 the cost.

Scientists Invent a New, Lighter Steel That's as Strong as Titanium
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Old 02-07-15, 11:01 PM
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After reading the whole Nature article, I posted my thoughts in Foo HERE.
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Old 02-07-15, 11:51 PM
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i just bookmarked the article. i plan on reading it at my leisure. thanks.

i love this stuff.
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Old 05-05-15, 06:45 AM
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ksisler
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Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post
I wonder how this stuff is going to work out. Strength to weight ratio of titanium at 1/10 the cost.

Scientists Invent a New, Lighter Steel That's as Strong as Titanium
P; Well first, Nature is not the place one is going to find breaking news in the materials sciences. Good place for an article about finding a colony of titmouse's with 11 nipples instead of 10. Their readers love both symmetry, asymmetry and nautilus shells. That is all cool.

Now digressing back to the claims; "Strength to weight ratio of titanium at 1/10 the cost"

I have ridden Ti frames off and on since the earliest days and have yet to find one that I considered particularly stiff (thus not worth the high cost) so meeting that metric is not so dramatic. And given that most Ti frames cost a fortune to buy, not so awesome to get it down to 1/10 of a fortune to buy and thus that is not so dramatic either. Check out the article on invention of a three wheeled vehicle; now that is breaking news...

So if I were to draw a conclusion; If every claim works out exactly as posited, then at some future unknown date I might be able to get a frame that costs about as much as a good steel frame, but will ride about like a current Ti frame... Geez, that isn't that much to look forward to. I think I will just keep riding my current bikes (mostly steel, some aluminum ones, and a few crazy alloys (as in the high end Santana's that already have achieve the mechanically combined alloys for several years now) that are really available and requires no dreaming.

/K
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Old 05-06-15, 05:42 AM
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I have ridden Ti frames off and on since the earliest days and have yet to find one that I considered particularly stiff (thus not worth the high cost) so meeting that metric is not so dramatic.
What does stiffness have to do with strength?

And given that most Ti frames cost a fortune to buy, not so awesome to get it down to 1/10 of a fortune to buy and thus that is not so dramatic either.
Are you kidding?
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Old 05-06-15, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by waterlaz View Post
What does stiffness have to do with strength?


Are you kidding?
Stiffness is easy to increase by simply upping the tube diameter for the same weight budget. But the form factor manipulations work at the 3rd power for stiffness, and only the second power for strength, so one rapidly runs out of strength when pushing tubing form factors to the next level. So doubling the diameter and weight of a tube increases the stiffness by 8, the strength by 4. If you used the same weight budget for the tube wall thickness would basically halve, and pooch resistance would fall by 4.

So what is the relationship of strength to stiffness, basically what makes Ti interesting at all, along with it's cool factor and rust resistance.

On cost, yeah maybe he overstates, but only rhetorically. Ti raw material is not that much more expensive as it is than premium steel. If this stuff is ever made into bike tubing it would be a huge improvement over anything we currently have. If it beat Ti by 10 on cost, it would be cheaper than 4130 or high tens. So what will really happen is that it will be at best between steel and Ti. And those are only savings on raw tubing costs which is a small part of high end custom bike wholesale costs.

Where this stuff would be interesting would be:

- other than strength almost identical to normal steel. So then you have: easier to weld than Ti; can be formed into all kinds of butted and fluted shapes while Ti is often straight wall; gets picked up by aircraft tubing guys and we get some cheap "4130" that is dramatically lighter. That would be a gamechanger, because straight tubing would all of a sudden outperform fancy bike stuff. But I can't see that happening any time soon, if at all because 4130 is all built into certs, and stuff, and it's day is gone so getting substitutes approved would be expensive.

Where the new stuff would be "bad", would be that it could be none of the stuff we are hoping for, and just more Ti, without rust resistance, or cache. When the magic beans stuff is left at the door, a lot of sophisticated opinion says that Ti isn't as light as aluminum, or as strong as steel, and in a balance that really doesn't deliver much of interest. This does come down to cost though, because at the right price Ti would blow steel out of the utility end of the spectrum for thinking users, but it is a mediocre set of characteristics for being at the top end of price.
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