This really depends on many different factors. Type of bike, size of tire, weight of rider, position of rider, type of terrain can all determine if a bike's front tire has a enough traction to cause your back wheel to lift up before the front tire slides. I have seen a few peoples front tire slide when braking hard on the road. I'd be willing to bet position of the rider has the most to do with if the front tire slides or not, since the riders mass is usually the largest source of mass in the equation.

Brown's interpretation is a miss reading of the physics of bicycle braking. The maximum possible braking before the rider is pitched over the handlebars is attained when the rear wheel is no longer in contact with the ground. However, that maximum occurs just before the rider is pitched over the bars. In other words, it is at the point where the rider transitions from riding the bike to falling to the ground. It's a mathematical maximum but not a practical maximum.

Brown's point of maximum still has the rear wheel in contact with the ground..."just about to lift off the ground" isn't off the ground yet. As long as the wheel is in contact with the ground, it can still contribute to braking because it does, in fact, still have traction. And, more importantly, it helps with control of the whole bike.

This question is not one that would ever be asked in a mountain bike discussion because all mountain bike riders know to use both brakes and to release the front brake when the rear brake starts to slide. That puts the rear tire back down on the ground and helps to maintain control and reduce the risk of going over the bars.

Well...I dunno. Wouldn't surprise me to find a ten-mile-long thread on braking over at mtbr.com.

Not all of us brake that way. I don't. I'm pretty conscious of which brake or brakes I'm pulling and why. The more technical and rocky and rooty the terrain, the more likely I am to be just on the front brake and not on the rear at all. Really, the back brake is only meaningful in a few specific types of situation.

In over 30 years of mountain bike riding, I've never heard any mountain bicyclist say that they used only the front brake in any situation, especially in technical situations. Depending on the front brake alone in that kind of situation is almost guaranteed to end up with a stopped wheel and the rider going over the bars.

If already responded too, I'm sorry.

I read the "grab the front brake..." and found myself wondering how such bad information could be offered.

If you only apply the front brake to stop the bike, you're only using a single contact point with the road surface (where the friction is baby!) rather than gaining the benefit of two contact points. Loading the rear tire can help the front tire gain maximum friction because it tends to stabilize the bike as mentioned by cyccommute.

A rider who can modulate their braking is far less likely to have problems with a sliding front wheel. Much of the sliding is caused by bad braking technique. Grabbing too much brake for the available traction is the most common cause of the front wheel skidding. Unless the brakes are applied progressively, snatching at the brakes is almost guaranteed to result in their misapplication. Other causes of front wheel skidding are dirty rims, out of true/round rims, and bad rim joints. Frankly, anything that can cause the snatching phenomenon is suspect.

When I began motorcycling 40 years ago, I was taught to use both brakes. One day, on a wet road, I decided to "experiment" with using just the front brake. I was traveling in a perfectly straight line and in a perfectly upright position, and I thought I would just have an interesting front-wheel skid. Instead, the bike SUDDENLY flopped onto its side. The front wheel had shot out from under me sideways. The helmet saved my head, but I had a sore hip and shoulder for quite a while. Motorcycles and bicycles come from the factory with two brakes for a reason.

If we lived closer it might be interesting to compare trails and riding style. The term "technical" is pretty nebulous, I'll admit.

There is a trail in Marquette on the Benson's Grade called Flow. Jagged rocky patches separated by segments of dirt. Very steep. It's signed as a freeride trail with a big old caution sign to ward off the cross-country riders. I'm a cross-country rider, really, but I like to throw myself down the other trails sometimes to see what I can manage to get past without walking. Flow I can ride, or could two years ago.

Anyway, it's all about the timing. I just watch the trail carefully and brake when it is safe to do so. Precision braking, you could call it? Maybe I'm just good at modulating. I dunno.

Now there's another trail I rode once that began nicely enough, but it surprised me by turning into a mile-long segment at the end of just jagged rocks all the way. Rode that one rigid and it was a pretty crazy experience. All I needed to "brake" on that one was to stop pedaling and "coast", but had to be careful not to cease pedaling too abruptly.

On anything steep it's only the front brake that does any good. If you see me on the back brake on a steep segment, it's probably because I'm in over my head and have gone into panic mode. :lol:

I probably do squeeze both brakes much of the time, but it's the front that I'm focusing on and squeezing the hardest. It barely bothers me to ride without a rear brake, and more than once I've thought about removing the rear brake to save the weight.

I usually make it to Denver once a year for a conference. Maybe someday we can ride together and compare notes.

This is a rebuilding year for me. Maybe by next year I'll be back into tolerable shape.

Boy. Now you have me second-guessing myself. Do I really do what I *think* that I do? So much is subconscious. Could I be thinking one thing and doing another?

I'll disconnect my rear brake on my next ride and let you know how that goes.

I agree with you that jerky braking is what probably causes most of the front wheel slides. I was replying to another post that said the back tire cant give any assistance in stopping because the back tire will get lifted off the ground. It really does depend on the factors i mentioned. I cant remember where i read it but, I remember reading an article that said a study was done and the fastest braking was where the front tire was doing 90% of the work and the back tire 10%

Well, you chose the worst day possible to experiment. The problem in your accident was not applying front brake only, but doing it wrong. There is no such thing as a front-wheel skid (wheel there is, goes just as you described it). You didn't crash because you only used the front brake, but because you used too much of it, locking your tire. If you use too much front brake you're going down whether you are also applying the rear brake or not.

Front/rear brake use is application dependent. When racing road bikes / supermoto, front brake is used almost exclusively. Motocross is pretty much all rear brake (to avoid accidents like the one you had). What is certain is that under braking conditions, where most of the load is carried by the front wheel, the front brake has much more stopping power than the rear one (again, why you fell - too much stopping power). Which to use when is situational.

Your diagnosis is absolutely correct - I grabbed too much front brake on a slippery road. With lots of practice, I might have found just the right amount of front-wheel-only traction to stop the bike safely, even on a wet road. Instead, I went back to following the advice of the amateur racer who advised using both brakes carefully, all the time. According to him, front-brake-only could result in going over the handlebars; rear only and the rear wheel would likely slide sideways. Why rely on only one small contact patch when you can have two? Expert riders can do all kinds of amazing things, but casual riders
like me should practice using both brakes so that habit will take over in a panic situation. I'm no physicist, but I think the rear brake puts a drag on the rear wheel and thus helps keep you going in a straight line. Binding only the front wheel is encouraging the whole bike to switch ends.

You have made this claim before and I have told you before where your error lies. THe 'pitch over' point is the instant your rear wheel has zero force against the ground. This is both the theoretical and practical maximum. Theoretically, and practically, if your wheel is lifted off the ground any non-zero amount, your maximum deceleration without the rider and bike rotating over the front wheel is less than if it was not lifted off the ground. Your previous claim that maximum braking occurs when the rider is balanced in a nose wheelie is just nonsense.

Safety wise, your method is good, and that should always be our main concern.

Typically, maximum braking is defined in terms of available traction, not bike attitude. If you're skidding, you've exceeded maximum braking. If you aren't yet skidding, you're short of maximum braking. Somewhere between the two lives the true maximum braking "value".

I only have a front brake mounted. And I have it on the right, when I ride I use my right hand. I do ride fixie so I can slow doing that.

Cool. Just don't ride faster than the ambulance can chase you. Haha

This

And this

I use both pretty much.

I like to think using both helps reduce strain on just one brake caliper and potential breaking mid stop on a hard emergency stop.

The key is to pulsate the brakes and not just squeeze them in a half second causing the tire to lock. On wet roads, use common sense...regulate the braking pressure...small smooth squeezes, ease up in the lean....ect ect.

The ongoing discussion has generally been assumed to be about a single bike with enough traction to lift the rear wheel with the front brake, which is common on any dry hard surface, eg. asphalt. Sorry if this was not clear in our posts - we clarified all these details several years ago. But, yes, in many situations maximum braking is far below the point where the rear wheel lifts.

I try to avoid braking in a good, fast turn. If gravity is forcing me out of a turn I'll gently give it a nice, smooth pull of the front brake to get me back where I want to be. AKA not going into the curb. been there done that....Ate grass and road dirt for lunch.

I generally reach for the rear brake in that situation.

Sounds like it might be private. An ongoing tiff of sorts.

I like discussing maximum braking. Can you tell?

I know how to slow down and stop. I never put my self in a situation where I'm not in control. If outside factors cause me to be put in a situation where my front brake and fixed gear won't get me out of a rear wouldn't make a difference