Dave Cutter

As if attending a bicycle prevents it from theft?!?!

A couple years ago... a cyclist [downtown] refused to turn over the bicycle he was riding to some low-life that wanted it. So the low-life just shot him and rode off on the guy's bicycle. While the bicycles owner bleed to death on the street.

It is silly to think that a chain... or your hand on the handlebars is going to protect your bicycle from theft. I've had many favorite "things" in my lifetime. Some of those favorite things have been bicycles. But no bicycle has ever been anything MORE.... than just a bicycle.

I was recently reminded that there are people that will attempt to steal your bicycle right in front of you. It is disheartening. No one, no bicycle, is safe.

erig007

Took less than 3 min for the strongest krypto/abus with powertools
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/a...-chains-44996/

SamHouston

It's hard to find people who are surprised that metal cutting tools cut metal, but they are out there. 2+ minutes is a very noisy 2+minutes. Locks that aren't easily cropped, picked are more important because those are the most frequent quiet attacks. Far more common are thefts of opportunity, which are all about the user not the lock. If you lock up poorly, to a bad fixture or to no fixture at all you're in the largest category of theft victims.

Impressive showing by Hiplok, where being attacked with a grinder isn't a big concern. Too bad the new Abus 640 Granit Mini wasn't included, it likely compares to the larger 540, but weighs less than 900 grams (less than 2 pounds) and fits a back pocket. The Krypto Evo is also far more common than the larger Fahgeddeaboauroariit, but it probably is comparable to the krypto messenger mini they tested. Surprised that Krypto chain did so poorly.

Neddog

Actually, the OP's story only gives an example of why it DOES matter what you lock with, not the other way around. The bike was stolen because it was locked with a chain. Any experienced commuter knows that you don't lock with a chain unless it's those Kryptonite NY chains and also that you don't lock with "a" (ie, singular) lock of any kind. I used to lose bikes on a regular basis in my town, until I finally learned how to lock up properly (learned the hard way, you can say). I have gone many long years now with no problem. I do not turn my back without locking up right. I've learned my lesson alright, and that is that the locks and system you use (covering 4 major points - 2 wheels, frame, and seat) DOES matter a great deal. No, I can't take my bike everywhere I go. I ride my bike every my sole means of transportation, not just when I want to ride for recreation. I need to be prepared for that.

zonatandem

I suppose you take your bike to bed with you. And, when get up in middle of the night to urinate, you bring the bike with you to the bathroom too?!
Am sure your spouse understands . . .

ColonelSanders

The bike radar article there was what convinced me to get the Abus 54 mini, but I am wondering now why there was such a difference in cutting time between the two articles?

Was the bike radar angle grinder a bit underpowered?

Did the guy in the YouTube clip have some super dooper diamond cutting blade in addition to the vice?

Could the YouTube guy have had a cheap copy of an Abus 54?

ColonelSanders

Could you please provide some info on what methods you employ to make your bike as secure as you have done.

ColonelSanders

In the city where I live and the suburbs where I would be likely to leave my bike unattended whilst locked up, thankfully bike crime isn't that rampant.

However I am always actively looking for ways to improve my bike security and will be prepared to make changes to my existing arrangements if better ways come to my attention.

SamHouston

The quick cut video has the lock clamped tightly in a bench mounted vise, cut with a corded angle grinder. Not real world conditions at all, not by a long shot. More a demonstration of how an angle grinder works than how a lock is cut. The vise makes a -world- of difference. There is nothing in a machine that a machine shop tool can't handle efficiently under controlled conditions.

Bikeradar would have tried to perform real world tests, with battery powered tools on unsecured (unclamped) locks, on bicycles.

ColonelSanders

I pretty much agree with what you have said there, but that YouTube video was back in 2009 and as someone said, portable angle grinders are likely to have improved a fair bit since then, so it comes down to the vice???

Neddog

I have two systems I like to use. Both employ a small cable lock from seat to frame, but where they differ is in the main locking system to lock the frame, front wheel, and back wheel.

One method is two sturdy locks, either U-locks or flat bar locks, or one of each. I run one through the back wheel and frame together to the rack. The other lock is from the front wheel to the frame (road bikes and hybrids can use a shorter lock here, while mountain bikes require a longer one).

The other method employs one sturdy lock (U-lock or flat bar lock), which goes from the frame to the rack, and two strong cables with loops on each end, run into each wheel and back to the main lock. The important thing here is to have the sturdy lock attached to the frame. Cables and chains are NOT sufficient to lock a bike, though they can be sufficient to lock just a wheel or a seat.

What I like about this second method is that the cables allow me to use all sorts of alternative configurations, albeit a little less securely, to lock around objects which are thicker or harder to get to than a standard bike rack. Very useful on the road or in the country. For instance, I can lock around a lamp post or a tree which the U-lock would not be able to fit around. Better that than not locking up!

Of course, keep in mind that my bikes are not worth thousands of dollars either. Mine are only worth hundreds. That makes a difference on just how much effort people will take to steal it.

ColonelSanders

Okay, obviously your methods there will require a well equipped thief to be able to make off with your bike, but where you use the strong cable with loops, if someone is able to get through your U-lock, don't then the cables just slide off?

Where people say to use different methods so that a thief will need more than one tool, what out there will make life difficult for a portable angle grinder, besides a beefy U-lock?

SamHouston

Cordless has come a long way in the past 5-6 years, compared to previous cordless tools.. The only cordless angle grinders that can begin to compare power-wise to a corded grinder are brushless motor versions released in the last year, fairly expensive $200-$400. Even though these boast more power than previous versions, most of the improvement is in battery life. No cordless option beats corded when it comes to torque.

With that lock securely in a vise, the very strong man was able to apply a great deal of force to his tool, which did not stop. Had he tried that with a cordless grinder the device would have stopped cutting/turning even with a fully charged battery because the power just isn't there & most good models include overload protection which just shuts it off if you press too hard. Even the new brushless models. With corded you can power through a cut, with cordless you have to wait.

Neddog

Yes, having the two separate main locks is definitely more secure than the one main lock and cables. However...locks are really heavy and cumbersome. That's also a consideration.

That's why I have different systems. One's a little more secure, sometimes a little more convenient. The other is lighter and more versatile... I don't think there's one perfect system out there for everyone, but there is certainly a minimum requirement.

ColonelSanders

Great to hear.

erig007

One cordless is just 7% slower than a corded one at grinding. Test can easily be found online. Though this grinder cost above 400$.

SamHouston

At grinding. Specifically steel rebar. Introduce case-hardened steel and try to cut it and the difference in torque between corded & cordless comes out. The more pressure that can be exerted without slowing the stroke rate (or breaking your disc) = the faster cut. I use both, cordless are convenience & quick jobs. Cutting hardened alloys takes more time with it and running it continuously under just a moderate load (they can't do more) for 4-5 minutes drains the best battery on the best brand.

Another thing to remember about that video, he's in a country where the standard is 220-240 volts out of the wall, and that grinder he's holding is not at all compact. Not only will his grinder outperform any battery powered, it'd likely outperform corded models from home depot below contractor grade 220 models.

You probably won't have to worry about anyone cutting your high end u-lock in 6 seconds on the street for another 10-20 years at least. Unless the thieves resort to working in pairs using a cargo bike to haul a few car batteries and an inverter around with them.

Truly, I know our culture is hooked on fear mongering, but if you lock your bike well and in the right spot it'll be safe enough in most whereabouts of most readers of bike forums, at least from this sort of attack. That said, a battery powered grinder will quickly eat through a 10$-20$ lock.

WizardOfBoz

Sounds like a good place to avoid.

A nice fantasy is a "Direct Action". Advertise a bike gathering in their parking lot with all the LBS and bike clubs. Call the manager and tell him you plan on having several hundred cyclists occupying his drive-through lanes and parking lot. Then ask him why he refuses to serve cyclists in drive through. Explain the problem with no bike rack. See if he's willing to change his policy.

Marcus_Ti

Heh...or just use a car jack to crack open your U-lock.

There are lots of ways to best locks...pretending you are safe is just that. Pretending.

SamHouston

Only the largest u-locks can fit a carjack, Volvo & VW have very small jacks but even these can't fit in my Abus 640 mini, or any of the myriad mini u-locks out there, many standard u-lock don't leave room for a jack when locking a bike to pole. Car jacks are another bogeyman story because they just aren't often used, even though they can do the job.

As for pretending, there is nothing pretend about realism.

Just because no bike is safe doesn't mean yours will be stolen. Reasonable precautions work. I've had 2 bikes stolen in my 44 years. I've owned, ridden & locked up in every part of several major cities somewhere between 40-50 different bikes in that time.

The first was when I was 13 & got to swim practice realizing I had brought my cable but forgot my padlock. So I pretended to lock up & it was stolen. In a high crime area, unlocked, it was stolen.

The second was in a working class neighbourhood, I left my key on the same priate porch my bike was locked to. Some opportunity thieves took it. To-be-expected, another user error.

Otherwise, in high crime areas, locking many tens of thousands of times, in random locations for unspecified amounts of time, good practices saw my bike stay mine. And those two occasions simply could not have been the only times I screwed up in all that time, so don't conclude that things are so bad that my bikes were stolen on the only occasions I left them unprotected, that's be silly.

Put the bogeymen to rest people, bike theft is a problem, but it's mainly a user/opportunity thief problem that can be remedied with good practices. Super-thieves with badass equipment simply aren't a worthy threat topic on theft issues. Fun, but not actually a big deal at all.

The biggest threat on the issue of bike theft is unlocked bikes, poorly locked bikes & bikes locked with 5-10$ cables/chains. That's where the big action is. That's where you get results if you want to address theft.

Dave Cutter

I used to contribute to a security forum. In many cases most public theft is opportunist in nature. It's like the old joke about the two guys in the wood. The 1st guy says: If we cross paths with a bear... run back to the car.
The 2nd guy says: We can't outrun a bear.
The 1st guy replies: I won't have to outrun the bear... I'll just have to outrun you.

If your bicycle is the only bike around... it's a target.
If your bicycle is the most valuable bicycle around... it's a target.
If your bicycle is the easy to steal.... it's a target.

italktocats

on the other hand, who will stop him if the thief does that.....

italktocats

if you have a bike, its a target
if you dont have a bike, youre the target

moral of the story, get a bike

Dave Cutter

+1 I like that!

But it's important to remember that even non-cyclists become victims of crime. There isn't anything the average, honest, person can do to prevent crime.... because being an average, honest, person isn't the cause of crime.

Locks, cameras, personally hanging on to the bike. If someone wants what you've got badly enough... they can and will take it. Period. Safety has never static position, or procedure. Keeping items of value is often more work than earning the money to buy them.

pedlar

im glad he is ok,not mugged or worse,then it might have been a long heated story!