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is there such a thing (2x3 or 3x3)

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is there such a thing (2x3 or 3x3)

Old 09-30-15, 12:02 PM
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sodbreaker
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is there such a thing (2x3 or 3x3)

Hey just wondering if a internal hub 3spd would work with either a front or rear derailer, and also if anybody has tried this, thanks
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Old 09-30-15, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sodbreaker View Post
Hey just wondering if a internal hub 3spd would work with either a front or rear derailer, and also if anybody has tried this, thanks
Yes, there are hub designed to work with a front derailleur like Sturmey Archer and I believe one Sachs/SRAM model, plus people have used Nexus 7 hubs with a front derailleur.

Another option is the Patterson Drive or the Truvativ Hammerschmidt systems, which are crank based gear doubling systems, along with the much more expensive Schlumpf Mountain Drive.

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Old 09-30-15, 12:11 PM
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SRAM's DualDrive hubs use a 3-speed internal along with a regular 8-spd cassette and rear derailleur to give 24 speeds.
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Old 09-30-15, 12:29 PM
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The Shimano Alfine chain tensioner, intended for use with Alfine internally geared hubs, is a dual jockey wheel spring-loaded mechanism that allows the use of multiple chainrings.

Any IGH can be used with multiple chainrings if it is equipped with a cog that can be used with a 3/32" chain and a rear derailleur or similar chain tensioner. However, most IGHs have a published minimum primary drive ratio and this should be respected in all available gear combinations.
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Old 09-30-15, 01:12 PM
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I built up a 3x3x3 in the late 50s~early 60's 3 cog cluster on 3 speed Hub, and triple crank , 3 down tube friction shift levers.
2 derailleurs + the hub.



Now, I have a 3 speed Brompton with a 2 speed Swiss Mountain Drive crankset.


BTW the Patterson Metro [in 2nd post] is a 1.6x over drive. so the shift is to a Higher gear .


Schlumpf has 3 models: 2 overdrive , 1.65x and 2.5X.. and the reduction gear Mountain drive .

with it , a 50t chainring acts like its 20t, because the cranks turn 2.5x faster than the chainring.

4th is hub low in direct gear, 3rd is hub high in the reduction gear.

(Rohloff has a similar double shift between 7th & 8th, it being a 7 speed used twice,
with a similar reduction gear+ hub double shift, but the sequencing is done in the hub )

Last edited by fietsbob; 09-30-15 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 09-30-15, 06:01 PM
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When combining internal gearing, you have to watch out for gearing too low. I had the forerunner of the SRAM DualDrive, a 3x7 rear hub, combined with a triple up front, to give 63 speeds. There was lots of overlap and duplication, but my gear range was 17" to 144". Technically, my small 30T chainring put me outside of recommended spec, but I didn't use it enough to become an issue.
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Old 09-30-15, 06:22 PM
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I have put two dished cogs back to back on my SA 3 speeds IIRC it would take a 4 tooth difference, you had to stop to switch to the other cog and slide the wheel forwards or backwards. Brompton uses 2x3, 2 cogs that can be shifted on a 3 spd IGH. Lots of possibilities.

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Old 09-30-15, 09:45 PM
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so next question would a 2x3 as described have any significant advantage over a 1x6 or How much gear overlap would a 2x3 have, my plan b is to use a 6spd cassette off an old 12 or 18 spd, but with only one chain ring on the front, I'm doing my homework for a custom built pavement bike, thanks again
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Old 10-01-15, 07:14 AM
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Yes, people having been doing that for decades. You used to be able to buy kits to facilitate the conversion:

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Old 10-01-15, 07:22 AM
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I ride a 2x2: Speed Drive front, Duomatic Torpedo hub rear
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Old 10-01-15, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Yes, people having been doing that for decades. You used to be able to buy kits to facilitate the conversion:


Yep, my '56 AW with a Cyclo 3 cog has been in service for decades.
Fussy, complicated, useful and very British.

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Old 10-01-15, 09:18 AM
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Cyclo one I got, back then, Was one piece of steel machined to use an 1/8" chain on either of 3 cogs.

friction shift levers made it quite Un Fussy as I recall But the 3 cubed speeds was a complex thing to learn
where the gear you wanted was .. undoubtedly many redundant ratios.

Last edited by fietsbob; 10-01-15 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 10-01-15, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
friction shift levers made it quite Un Fussy as I recall But the 3 cubed speeds was a complex thing to learn
where the gear you wanted was .. undoubtedly many redundant ratios.
The shift sequence is indeed complex, unless you simply print the gear inches for each position and tape them on the stem:
"Let's see, is that one shift down on the cogs and an up-click on the hub or the other way 'round?"

Selecting gearing is best done using a gear calculator.
For my bike, on my terrain with my level of fitness I have a useful range of 41-106GI w/ no dupes and nice steps.
Being able to shift the hub while braking or stopped is nice for a town bike but the drivetrain has all of the disadvantages of both IGH and derailleurs.

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Old 10-01-15, 09:49 AM
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BSR + the MD crank is 2 planetary transmissions , which is great when the double shift is needed , like Bogged Down on a Hill ..

There, all 6 gear ratios are a sequence without overlaps.
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Old 10-01-15, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sodbreaker View Post
so next question would a 2x3 as described have any significant advantage over a 1x6 or How much gear overlap would a 2x3 have, my plan b is to use a 6spd cassette off an old 12 or 18 spd, but with only one chain ring on the front, I'm doing my homework for a custom built pavement bike, thanks again
Plan B would be much easier and have no gear overlap, but wouldn't get any points for cleverness.
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