jdbyron

Greetings -

I'm newer to the cycling community and have been commuting for a little over a year in Minnesota (snowed yesterday, blah blah). Last year, I bought the All-City Space Horse (the light blue one). It's been ideal for my needs.

Last weekend, I was riding on a dirt trail with small pebbles. A pebble somehow got caught between my chain and the idler pulley on my rear derailleur. The derailleur pulled into the spokes, fine. But, it also must have pulled down because it bent my rear dropouts wide open. I took it to my local shop yesterday and they said they would look into the cost of replacing the dropout (replace, weld, paint), but it may make sense to just replace the frame.

What do you all think? Should a pebble in the idler pulley be able to bend the dropouts? I know All-City has a crash replacement discount program, but I'm wondering if the damage is to be expected given what happened. I was pedaling, not shifting, going about 15mph when it happened.

I'm not looking for a handout, but don't want to burn cash when I'm in the market for a wheel set.

Opinions welcome. Thanks!

andr0id

It is not unusual for debris in the drive chain or spokes to wreck stuff.

It happens a lot to MTB riders. MTBs are built a bit sturdier and heavier to account for being in the woods, but I've had friends trash MTB derailleurs and wheels on a regular basis, usually from sticks. I have not heard of a frame being damaged until yours, but yes it can surely happen.


I don't think this is a manufacturing defect, the bike was designed and built to go on the roads, not trails and used materials suitable for that mission.

Yes, you should be able to buy a replacement at the crash price. While you didn't fall over, this is basically what happened.

jimc101

I had a similar incident with my RD going into the spokes and bending the dropout a few years back during an MTB ride, the frame was 15 years old at the time, so I scrapped it, as it was way too far to bend back.

For the warranty, doubt they will cover this, as it wasn't a manufacturing defect, just a JRA incident.

Would look the cost of their crash replacement vs the cost of a complete bike with wheels, and decide what's the better option for you.

BTW, the Space Horse does look like a nice bike.

spdracr39

Not a warranty issue at all.

cyccommute 

It happens enough that most mountain bikes come with a sacrificial derailer hanger. The idea is that the hanger shears off easily, saving the frame and, perhaps, the derailer. Many road bikes are being built this way now too.

Not a manufacturing defect at all. It's user error and isn't covered under warranty. Sorry to say it jdbryon but you'll have to spring for a new frame.

Tim_Iowa

I'm sorry to hear about your mishap. Are you ok?

It sounds like the chain jammed in the derailleur, and then the chain tore the derailleur off and into the spokes.

Unfortunately, it's not uncommon. I managed to jam my chain with one of those wire flags for buried power lines, but thankfully the derailleur broke in half and saved my dropout.

It's not the frame's fault; your frame was an innocent victim.

I believe that your mishap is best covered under the crash replacement program. That sounds like what happened to you; you had a mechanical mishap which broke your frame.

If the dropout had broken off (without the chain jam) and then the derailleur went into the spokes, then maybe you'd have a warranty claim against the frame; the warranty covers failure of the frame, not damage to it.

Best of luck.

jdbyron

Right on. Thanks for the info (lots of this is new to me).
Like I said, I really like the bike and will plan to simply replace the frame with the same make/model.
$#!t breaks!

"User error" might be harsh, but I know what you mean

Thanks all!!!

MR BIG STUFF

Are you sure this can't be straightened?

I've done this a few times and was always able to realign the hanger.

RPK79

The Space Horse is designed for gravel roads so I would disagree with this statement. Otherwise I agree with you. I know the 2016 Mr Pink has a replaceable hanger, hopefully All-City goes that route with more of its bikes.

badger1

Wondering this too, OP; from St. Sheldon: "If the rear derailer gets caught in the spokes, the right rear dropout may be bent or broken. If it is only bent, it can usually be bent back into shape. Heat from a torch can make this job easier, but don't apply enough heat to melt brazed joints."

Steel frame w/integral (not replaceable) derailleur hanger, yes? Might be worth having a good frame builder (if there's one near you) have a look.

VegasTriker

Find another bike shop or as someone suggested find someone who does frame repair. The bike retails for $1,500 so it sure doesn't make sense to walk away from it. If All City wants too much for a replacement frame, you might consider partially stripping the bike and sending the frame to someone who does frame repair. One I know of is Yellow Jersey in Arlington, WI. Yellow Jersey, Ltd., Arlington WI USA Everything Cycling Since 1 April, 1971! and their page on frame repair. Bicycle Frame Repair at Yellow Jersey It's too bad All-City didn't see fit to use a replaceable derailleur hangar as they generally go for about $20 and take 30 seconds to install. I'd check with a frame rebuilder to compare the cost before replacing the frame. If you use the YJ, say hello to Bendix for me as we go back a long way.

JohnDThompson 

Unfortunately, the OP's frame has fancy, investment cast dropouts that are far less amenable to bending than old-school forged dropouts:



Not saying it can't be done, but there's a much higher risk of cracking the dropout, and depending on severity of the bend, virtual certainty on needing a good bit of heat, which will discolor the stainless steel and mar the paint in the heat affected area.

jdbyron

Yeah, that's more what I'm hearing, JohnThom.
All-City's crash replacement frame price isn't too bad, so I think I'll go that route.
Good to know about the Mr. Pink. If I didn't have to carry heavy panniers and deal with snow/gravel, I would make the switch to Mr. Pink.

njkayaker

It's not "user error" (you didn't make a mistake).

It's not a manufacturing defect.

It's a "crap happens" thing.

ltxi

^..x2

Rowan

Saw off the damaged derailleur hanger, realign what's left and make it into a fixed gear or single speed.

Gresp15C

If mountain bikes come with a separate hanger, could such a thing be attached to this frame?

I think that I still have a detachable derailer hanger left over from when I converted my 1982 Schwinn to IGH.

njkayaker

The rear dropout has to be designed to use a replaceable derailer hanger.

There are different hangers for different frames. That is, a hanger for one frame might not work on a different frame.

Gresp15C

That's reasonable. I was just thinking that if it was my own bike, I'd think about how to adapt a derailer hanger onto it, before replacing the frame.

This is the one from my old Schwinn, that fits into the horizontal dropout itself. I realized that this one isn't even threaded for a modern derailer. It was probably made as part of the derailer itself.

njkayaker

That looks like a steel plate. I suspect it's from an inexpensive bicycle.

Typical hangers are aluminum and flat. And then dropout has to be designed to accept the hanger.

https://wheelsmfg.com/derailleur-hanger-tech-help

https://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Dropo..._101_3354.html

It would be a lot of work to reengineer your frame to use a hanger (you'd need a new dropout). And you'd have to bend it back before you did that.

canadian deacon

I've done this too. It helps to have a good strong bench vise and a ball peen hammer. If you take your time it can be straightened. Make small adjustments and keep checking both sides.