Learning about cables
 

We live and learn. About three months ago I upgraded the Shimano derailleur on my cruiser, and changed the twist shifter for the lever type. The lever shifter came with a new cable which was too short because a cruiser needs a longer cable. I had to cut the housing down by seven inches. This left the routing of the cable a bit tight but still worked well.

Many years ago when I was a teenager, it was recognized practice to lube brake and gear cables with oil or light grease. So without updating myself on modern cables I applied a light smear of grease to the new cable, and everything worked well. A short while later I reviewed an article on brake and gear cables. It said that cables don't need lubrication because the housing has some kind of lining. Oh, well, I figured the grease wouldn't hurt anything.

Lately, the gear changes are not what they ought to be. It's like the chain takes its own sweet time to go to the next cog, whether changing up or down. I guessed the problem was in the cable. So after disconnecting it from the derailleur, I tried to pull it through the housing, and it was tight. The cable wasn't greasy, either. I rather suspect that the grease interacted with whatever material lined the housing, causing it to swell enough to grip the cable.

Fortunately, I have new housing and cable on the way because I had decided I didn't like the too-short cable and housing. One thing that irritated me, though, was that a standard gear cable isn't long enough, and I can't buy the housing and cable as a kit long enough to fit the bike. So now I have fifty feet of housing coming, and a cable long enough for a tandem bike. So, no more lubing cables!

I'd like to see cable and housing kits made about a foot longer and we can cut them to suit. It's better than having to buy a large quantity of housing which will get stored and probably never used.

I'd have to imagine Tandems use cable housimngs as well as cables. Possibly what you seek is already on the market?

I know a lot of bikes use only short sections of housing and run a lot of exposed wire, which I guess saves some weight and friction.

Otherwise ... market forces. if enough people wanted the product, it would be sold. I'd guess not a lot of people need extra-long cable housings, so companies couldn't make money selling them. Can't expect a company to lose money.

yeah, I use Jagware tandem cables. They're 3.1 meters for the shift cable.

Also, you can usually buy housing by the foot from any bike shop.

Kits? You can buy housing in bulk, 3* types, And cables in bulk (it's how Bike Shops stock it for repairs )



* standard brake, Indexed shifter & cable disc (a Specialty type housing) Shops sell it by the foot to customers

Brake & gear cables in Zn treated steel . or Stainless Steel. ..+ Offered longer for reaching rear of tandems.

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I guess I was looking in the wrong places for a tandem shift cable kit, but I've looked again and still find nothing. Kits, yes, but not for tandem. Tandem cables, yes, but no housings.

When I bought the lever shifter it came with the cable (not long enough) and the short pieces of housing but those wouldn't work with my cruiser. I've seen bikes with the short housing sections, though, and part of the cable bare.

I wasn't in any hurry to change the cable and housing, which is why I got it online. Normally I go to the bike shop but they're several miles away, and the cable wasn't giving me any trouble when I placed the order. I'll know better in the future, about getting this kind of stuff from the bike shop. They're good guys and I do 99.9% of my business with them, and have two bikes from them.

I appreciate everyone's input, here. As I said, I'm learning.

I never thought of that. Doing another search for tandem shift cable kits, I find a lot of Jagwire stuff on eBay, but they don't state the length of their cables. I assume they are standard kits. Anyway, next time I need cables and/or housings, I'll be going to the bike shop to get them.

Many bike shops can sell you custom cut cables and housing.

All of the larger online shops will have tandem cables as will any shop that specializes in recumbent bikes/trikes.
They are not particularly expensive either
Brake Pyramid Cable Brake 1.5 X 2667 (105") Steel Standard Universal Tandem
Gear Sunlite Gear Cable 1.3X2794(110)Steel Std Univ Tandem
I used both of these brands in the past and they work fine.

When you cut the housing to fit, be really careful to not crimp the opening in the end. That could be a source of your problem. Most cable linings are polyethylene or Teflon. Oil or grease should not damage either one.

I

Everyone else answered your supply question.

I have to say that your suspicion about the problem with the old is inaccurate. Unless you used some really garbage grease, there will be no 'interaction' that causes liners to 'swell'. (And even THEN, it's doubtful.)

I knew about crimping the end, and that was not done. The cable has worked well for three months, then began to give me the problem. In removing the cable from the housing, it was tight all the way. I didn't cut the top end, only the derailleur end, so by time I had pulled the cable past that point, if it was crimping that caused it, then it should have been free the rest of the way. This points to a swelling problem the whole length of the housing.

If my suspicion about the old housing is inaccurate, then it needs to be explained why the cable is tight along the whole length of the housing. Bear in mind the housing is about twenty months old because the bike was brand new when I bought it.

If CarQuest premium hi-temp disc brake & wheel bearing grease is garbage, then yes, I used "garbage grease." If that didn't cause an interaction with the liner, then something else must have. Like what? As I stated, everything was fine for three months before a problem began to arise. I think this is a learning situation valuable to all of us - "Don't grease brake or shifter cables unless the manufacturer says so."

Incidentally, the brake cables aren't greased, and they're fine.

Your GUESS about the cause for it carries no more weight than if 'god' did it. If you don't have an explanation, you don't have an explanation.

Some types of grease, when they don't have enough movement, will gum up, sludge up, and actually WILL do the opposite of what they're supposed to do. I hypothesized about garbage grease -- now I'm guessing the wrong type. (I've been using Slick 50 One grease for cables AND bearings since 2001, with ZERO problems.)

One final note: having built/repaired 31,000 bikes over a touch less than 16 years, I really don't need a lecture from an amateur.

But you do your bikes how you see fit. I'm out...C ya, wouldn't wanna B ya.

I have never heard of or had a cable "swell" internally, and I always use a little Tri-Flow or something. Never had a problem. If the whole thing is tight after a short time, I'd think maybe the grease is too thick or somehow it attracted enough fine dust and formed a paste. Sounds to me like you used some pretty thick grease. (Really, did you think a bike cable generated the same heat as a car's wheel bearing?) Maybe just too much grease collected too much dust.

I wouldn't "smear" grease all along the length of a cable ... too much area to attract and bind dust. I use a couple drops down the housing before I run the cable. Has worked on commuter bikes ridden in heavy rain day after day, on mountain bikes ridden in every kind of foul condition, touring bikes used for days on end in all weather ...

I have never heard of grease making the inside of a lined cable swell ... but maybe you are the first to discover this. However, so far that hypothesis is unproven. Did you try cutting open the cable at various points to look for signs of swelling?

You might have discovered something we would all like to know.

Aren't you special...and a bit full of yourself. :rolleyes:

The grease was what I had on hand, and it was so thin that I couldn't actually see it. As I pointed out earlier, we used to grease or oil our cables on bikes because it was recommended, but that was fifty years ago and it caused no problems. I also used Vaseline to grease a cable, and that caused no problems, either. That's why I greased this cable. Don't the housing end caps keep dust out? If they don't, then it means the dust entered either through the end cap at the shifter end or at the derailleur end, and then work its way through the whole length of the cable.

Neither would I, now.

Neither had I. And I may very well be the first one.

And will remain unproven. It's just something I suspect, not something I know. To prove it, I'd need to hire somebody with a degree in chemistry to examine it, and that would cost me mucho bucks which I don't have.

And, no, I didn't cut it open. The thing is, after three months of use, with no problems at all, the housing began gripping the cable, causing a slight delay before the derailleur moved the chain to the next cog. The delay was slight but noticeable, especially as I have another bike to compare it with that didn't have a greased cable and wasn't giving me any problems. If the grease was, indeed, clogging it up, why didn't it do that for the first three months of use?

If the inner lining did indeed swell, it would have been so slight, just enough to impede the cable movement, that it wouldn't have been observable to the naked eye.

Well, everyone should know not to grease a cable unless it is specified, but they don't. I learned this after the fact. Had I known it when I installed the cable, I wouldn't have greased it. We won't know whether the inner housing lining was affected by the grease or not. I wrote the OP for the sake of others like myself, who are learning (as I had mentioned), in the hope they won't make the same mistake when they replace a cable.

I don't give a hoot what you've been using. I did state that I'm learning. Did you not understand that?

And I don't need a lecture from a rude egotist. But perhaps you were having a bad experience at the time you responded. If you were, I sympathize with you, and it might be a good thing to wait until you are feeling better before you respond to any future posts.

Incidentally, building/repairing 31,000 bikes over "a touch less than sixteen years," means you have "built/repaired" more than 5.3 bikes a day, every day of the year for nearly sixteen years, on average. Forgive me for doubting you.

http://www.bikeforums.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by CrippledKonaBoy http://www.bikeforums.net/images/but...post-right.png


There's one in every group. :)

I don't know, i figured the guy worked in a bike shop, repairing bikes, in which case, 8-10 bikes in an eight-hour day, with work ranging from adjusting the brakes to full rebuilds, is not hard for me to believe.

Anyway ... I will continue to use a couple drops of light oil, and if I have a problem, I will remember this post. Sorry you had to be the one to go through the hassle, but in the name of science, and sacrifice (made by another) is worth it. ;)

I don't really mind these kind of problems. Sometimes with learning, there's a price to be paid. Usually, on a bike the price of such a mistake isn't very expensive; it's more of a nuisance. There are things I do to a bike that would make a good mechanic wince, but if something goes wrong with it, well, that's okay, too. I won't go into detail, here, about what I recently did to my fat bike. All I will say about it is, it's successful, but a bike shop would not, and could not, do such a thing for a customer. I'm not exactly orthodox. It's what makes life interesting. :)

Couldn't care less if you doubt me -- it's been my career. And re-do the math, since my DAYS OFF only involved working on family bikes.

Your "concern" for my feelings is touching; save it for yourself. I was TRYING to save you from going down a path that would teach you NOTHING. But you go on ahead...I don't have to fix what you screw up. Grease your cables with your own hurt feelings.

To the several other scoffers...."It's not that you're not on my level...you're not on the level below me."

I hate bragging. You were bragging.

I was being polite, which is more than I can say about you. You should have seen my first draft to your nasty response.

Don't try to save me from anything! I expressly said I was learning, but you seem to have a problem understanding that. I made a mistake which I won't make again, and your retro-advice was too late and pointless.

With a nasty attitude like yours, I wouldn't let you touch my bike if you was the last bike mechanic in the world. And I doubt I'm the only cyclist in the world who has lessons to learn.


You really do say some exceedingly stupid things. I think after letting you see my response, I'm going to put you on 'Ignore'. You are a nasty piece of work. You insult. You are rude. You think you know everything. And you still don't get what my OP was about. You really have a problem with understanding.

You rate yourself far too highly. I put you on the lowest level of all. Arrogant scum!

Dude. Chill.

+1 Cable/housing kits need to be longer, especially with the new "full run" routing on many aero bikes. I put a Racer XL kit on a Felt AR3, and still had to pick up about a foot of housing for the RD. Oh, and I use only Slick50 spray lube in any kind of cable housing, if any at all. It's very slick, and so far, no side effects. Red can, has the long red thin tube for tight spots. Only drawback is trying to work on stuff after using it, it's that slick.