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Rear wheel is moving to non-drive side while riding and staying there...

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Rear wheel is moving to non-drive side while riding and staying there...

Old 03-25-16, 11:47 AM
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Rear wheel is moving to non-drive side while riding and staying there...

So I have had this problem now with two bikes and am wondering if anyone can help me with solving this dilemma...I have taken it to a mechanic several times and had no luck. Basically I am centering my rear wheel in the dropouts and tightening the QR to the point where it is clamping the frame. Immediately within the first minute or 2 of riding, the wheel slips to the non-drive side and stays there for the rest of the ride. I have tried cleaning the rear dropouts, tightening the QR to the point at which I literally can't tighten it anymore, I have examined the bike for potential cracks in the frame/ wearing in the dropouts. I have confirmed that it is not an uneven distribution of power between my legs or how I sit on the bike as my mechanic got on it and managed to cause the wheel to slide to the non-drive side himself. Could the rear derailleur hanger potentially be worn to the point or possibly bent which is causing the skewer to slide forward in the dropout and forcing the wheel to the right? Could I have uneven rear dropouts due to frame deformity? Could the rear derailleur be unaligned and throwing off the centering of the wheel? I am honestly running out of ideas and it's a nuisance at this point...I have even gone as far as attempting to get a new frame since I am currently under warranty for my bike still.

Any help is appreciated!

-Steve
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Old 03-25-16, 11:57 AM
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Something like this might solve your problem:
Drivetrain | Parts and Accessories | Surly Bikes
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Old 03-25-16, 11:59 AM
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What kind of quick release skewers do you have? What is the material of the skewer rod itself? QRs with non-steel skewers have issues with not being able to tighten enough to prevent movement. Now, if all is right with vertically dropouts (virtually all new bikes), the wheel shouldn't move far off center even if it does slip. Older horizontally dropped bikes like the steel bikes of the '70s required steel skewers to prevent slipping as the QR was the only thing keeping the wheel from slipping.

If your rear QR has a non-steel skewer (or has an internal cam instead of the external cam and lever off to one side) replace it with an all steel external cam QR. Good thing is that those QRs are cheap and available. Shimano makes nice ones. QBP levers are cheap but work. A local bike coop will sell you a used one for probably $3.

It is possible that your frame is mis-aligned and the best lever in the world won't help but trying a better lever (if yours isn't a steel/external one) is a very cheap way to eliminate one variable.

Ben

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Old 03-25-16, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Aceldama
Something like this might solve your problem:
Drivetrain | Parts and Accessories | Surly Bikes
+1, I use the Surly Hurdy Gurdy to keep the drive side of the axle in place on my Rivendell (horizontal Campagnolo 1010 dropouts).

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Old 03-25-16, 12:04 PM
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I had a drive-train problem NOT DESCRIBED as your. As complete cleaning of chain / cassette / chain-wheels --- it fully changed the behavior of the drive-train. I mentioned it in another post. The issue be when I changed from trying Chain-L, to going back to Pro-Link.

Last edited by molten; 03-25-16 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 03-25-16, 12:07 PM
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I have the stock Rolf QRs that came with my Ares E4 so I will go and check right now what they are made of (pretty sure it would be a steel skewer)...I also forgot to mention that the mechanic took apart my rear wheel, checked the axle, and even made sure it was trued, and dished properly. What do you mean by levers by the way? I am still relatively new to cycling components/parts.

Forgot to mention I ride a Neil Pryde: Nazare...it has vertical dropouts.

Last edited by CrazySteve123; 03-25-16 at 12:10 PM. Reason: bike
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Old 03-25-16, 12:09 PM
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With horizontal dropouts, you must get your rear skewer TIGHT.

The lock nut on the drive side of your rear hub must be knurled, and SHARP.



Skewers can also have knurling, but you don't really want the skewer to hold and the wheel not to hold (bad things will happen).

The other issue is that skewers can have an internal (left) or external cam (right).


Bicycle Quick-Release Mechanisms

Apparently the external cam skewers provide less clamping force than the internal cam skewers.

It might not make a big difference for a typical vertical dropout. But, in your case with the horizontal dropouts, you want to maximize the clamping, and thus choose a quality internal cam skewer.
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Old 03-25-16, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Aceldama
Something like this might solve your problem:
Drivetrain | Parts and Accessories | Surly Bikes
There's no way that should be necessary. Good QRs on almost any bike work and have for the past 50 years. (Good isn't remotely related to either price or weight. In fact, the priciest, lightest QRs are not good. Sophomore year engineering will show that steel, that cheap heavy stuff, is by far the best material on this planet for QR skewers, much better than any aluminum or titanium. And those steel skewers were secure enough for hard men like Eddy Merckx. None of us are going to budge a wheel secured tightly with a $5 decent quality steel skewer in a frame that has dropouts in decent shape.

Ben
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Old 03-25-16, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
With horizontal dropouts, you must get your rear skewer TIGHT.

The lock nut on the drive side of your rear hub must be knurled, and SHARP.



Skewers can also have knurling, but you don't really want the skewer to hold and the wheel not to hold (bad things will happen).

The other issue is that skewers can have an internal (left) or external cam (right).


Bicycle Quick-Release Mechanisms

Apparently the external cam skewers provide less clamping force than the internal cam skewers.

It might not make a big difference for a typical vertical dropout. But, in your case with the horizontal dropouts, you want to maximize the clamping, and thus choose a quality internal cam skewer.
The Ares 4 ES has external cam QR...I may try an internal cam QR then and see what happens.
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Old 03-25-16, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
There's no way that should be necessary. Good QRs on almost any bike work and have for the past 50 years. (Good isn't remotely related to either price or weight. In fact, the priciest, lightest QRs are not good. Sophomore year engineering will show that steel, that cheap heavy stuff, is by far the best material on this planet for QR skewers, much better than any aluminum or titanium. And those steel skewers were secure enough for hard men like Eddy Merckx. None of us are going to budge a wheel secured tightly with a $5 decent quality steel skewer in a frame that has dropouts in decent shape.

Ben
Ben, I can't find what the skewers are made of for my wheelset...again I ride a Neil Pryde Nazare with vertical dropouts and am running Rolf Ares 4 ES Carbon Fiber Wheelset.
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Old 03-25-16, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
With horizontal dropouts, you must get your rear skewer TIGHT.

The lock nut on the drive side of your rear hub must be knurled, and SHARP.



Skewers can also have knurling, but you don't really want the skewer to hold and the wheel not to hold (bad things will happen).

The other issue is that skewers can have an internal (left) or external cam (right).


Bicycle Quick-Release Mechanisms

Apparently the external cam skewers provide less clamping force than the internal cam skewers.

It might not make a big difference for a typical vertical dropout. But, in your case with the horizontal dropouts, you want to maximize the clamping, and thus choose a quality internal cam skewer.
Sorry, OP. I got a little confused. The left hand picture in Clifford's post is what I meant. That is internally cammed but has the offset lever. (And in the link, Sheldon Brown shows exactly the qwality and cheap QRs I am talking about.)

Ben
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Old 03-25-16, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazySteve123
I have the stock Rolf QRs that came with my Ares E4
Forgot to mention I ride a Neil Pryde: Nazare...it has vertical dropouts.
Ahh, different problem.

Are your dropouts aluminum or carbon fiber?

If you just put the wheel on the bike with the bike resting on the floor, or perhaps the frame upside down... where does the tire naturally reside with respect to the chainstays?

Oh, also, how much tire clearance do you have? 23, 25, 28mm tires?

There have been reports of people with dropouts out of alignment. You should be able to check the alignment of the dropouts.
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Old 03-25-16, 12:25 PM
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An easy way to check your wheel alignment/dishing is to drop the chain, and flip the wheel around backwards. (cassette to the left). If the wheel is still holding left, then it points towards a frame problem. If the problem reverses and the wheel is closer to the right stay, then a dishing problem.

Apparently some wheels can go out of dish a minute amount when a tire is mounted and inflated
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Old 03-25-16, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Ahh, different problem.

Are your dropouts aluminum or carbon fiber?

If you just put the wheel on the bike with the bike resting on the floor, or perhaps the frame upside down... where does the tire naturally reside with respect to the chainstays?

Oh, also, how much tire clearance do you have? 23, 25, 28mm tires?

There have been reports of people with dropouts out of alignment. You should be able to check the alignment of the dropouts.
It wants to naturally go to the opposite of the drive train without tightening the QR as described while riding with it tightened.
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Old 03-25-16, 12:43 PM
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If the axle protrudes out from the locknut more than the thickness of the dropout, no amount of tightening of the QR will solve the problem. Make sure the axle is centered and not protruding more than roughly 4.5mm on either side.
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Old 03-25-16, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
An easy way to check your wheel alignment/dishing is to drop the chain, and flip the wheel around backwards. (cassette to the left). If the wheel is still holding left, then it points towards a frame problem. If the problem reverses and the wheel is closer to the right stay, then a dishing problem.

Apparently some wheels can go out of dish a minute amount when a tire is mounted and inflated
It is quite difficult for me to flip the wheel backwards as the hub is bulky on the non-drive side with that giant circle...
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Old 03-25-16, 02:01 PM
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It's the skewer, get a Shimano skewer. I'm surprised the mechanic didn't know this.
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Old 03-25-16, 02:37 PM
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Wait, you have vertical dropouts? Then you have a different problem than we all expected. The axle should not be able to move AT ALL in vertical dropouts. If the wheel can move side-to-side, then is sounds like a huge problem with the hub bearings.
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Old 03-25-16, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim_Iowa
Wait, you have vertical dropouts? Then you have a different problem than we all expected. The axle should not be able to move AT ALL in vertical dropouts. If the wheel can move side-to-side, then is sounds like a huge problem with the hub bearings.
Depending on the orientation of the dropouts, a wheel can still move; not all vertical dropouts are absolutely vertical. The easiest way to diagnose if it is indeed a wheel issue is to put a different wheel into the bike and see if the problem still exists. It it doesn't, then the wheel is the culprit. If it does, check the axle as I wrote in #15 .
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Old 03-25-16, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazySteve123
It wants to naturally go to the opposite of the drive train without tightening the QR as described while riding with it tightened.
So, if it fits naturally out of alignment, then you force it into alignment, then it is returning to its natural position, it sounds like something is out of alignment. I assume you're checking it without chain tension?

Either your wheel, dropouts/chainstays, or possibly your derailleur hanger is off kilter.

How far off are you at the rim/tire? 1 or 2mm? a cm?

You can try string verification of the frame alignment. I haven't been real successful at it, but there are a few notes on the web.
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Old 03-25-16, 06:16 PM
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Maybe he's putting the wheel in the dropouts without clamping and the chain weight is pulling the wheel to one side.

Before buying a new skewer, get a serrated washer (the kind with sharp teeth) and put in on the non-drive side. Then tighten the skewer.
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Old 03-26-16, 05:38 AM
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I didn't read all the posts, but is the wheel properly centered with the bike vertical and resting on it with the skewer loose? If it isn't, then there's a problem with the dish or the dropouts.
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