General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

noisy drivetrain help please

Old 04-15-16, 01:06 PM
  #1  
lungustefan
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
noisy drivetrain help please

All right,i have a bike for 2 years now.First year i got it it was prelubricated,then after 3 months i bought a mucoff dry lube.I started by applying it onto the chain every 1 week or so,just so i could have a more silent drivetrain,as it was a bit noisy for my taste.

This year,it was the same.Now I wanted to clean the chain and the drivetrain,cause they were filthy with lots of grit on them.so I bought a degreaser,WD40.I started applying Wd40 on the chain,then i took a nail brush and brushed the chain thoroughly,for like 5 minutes.Then I brushed the rear cassette too.I applied the wd40 on the chain directly,and when cleaning the rear cassete only on the brush,i did NOT spray wd40 directly on the cassete out of fear of flushing out the grease out of the hubs and whatever.

Now,after this,i took a clean rag and wiped the chain very well of the wd40.I let the bike idle for 1 day,then today i washed it with hot soapy water.I did not pour water on the rear derailleur,only directly on the chain.I cleaned it well with a dry rag,and after 10 minutes i applied the lube.

Now i started noticing a strange sound comming from the drivetrain,when each chainlink was comming on the cassette sprocket links.Also,this happened in each gear.And I felt a big vibration in the pedals,and it was comming from the drivetrain and chain.It was very noisy indeed when i switched bikes with a friend and i listened to mine from behind.
I pulled over,applied even more lube on the chain and also on the 5,6,7 gear sprockets.The noise and vibrations were reduced,but if i would switch in a lower gear,like 3,4,i felt the same vibration and noise.I lubricated those too,but its still quite the same.

After 20 km,i stopped,pulled over,and listened to it again.The same sound came back and the vibrations are back in the pedals.Its as if some chainlinks are encountering resistance when grabbing onto each sprocket tooth.

What can i do to stop this??what exactly is happening?
lungustefan is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 01:17 PM
  #2  
Gweedo1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 217
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You removed and refitted the rear wheel? My guess is it's not aligned/centered.

Cleaning and lubing your chain should not lead to the issues you describe, however, I don't know what possessed you to use soap and water on a steel chain. Stop that. Water on steel = rust. Just use wd 40 to clean in future.
Gweedo1 is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 01:18 PM
  #3  
lungustefan
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i used water and soap cause GCN said so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ak4AzlUz5Q

shall i reclean it with WD40 and then apply lube after it has dried out?

Last edited by lungustefan; 04-15-16 at 01:26 PM.
lungustefan is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 01:43 PM
  #4  
VegasTriker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sin City, Nevada
Posts: 2,101

Bikes: Catrike 700, Greenspeed GTO trike, , Linear LWB recumbent, Haluzak Horizon SWB recumbent, Balance 450 MTB, Cannondale SM800 Beast of the East

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Have you checked the alignment of the rear derailleur? Removing and reinstalling the rear wheel shouldn't require changing the setting but I have had a few times when it did. If you don't know how to do it, go to either the Park Tool site or Sheldon Brown's website (Home Page | Park Tool Sheldon Brown-Bicycle Technical Information) Both sites have detailed information.

I'm not a fan of what you did. I know this is going to upset the people who worship at the altar of WD-40. I'm not one. Yes, I have used water-based household cleaners on a really gunky chain but only when it is very hot outside so that I know the chain will be completely dry inside before I re-lubricate it. I remove the chain using the quick link that comes on the chain. That way the cleaner doesn't get all over the drive train and I can rinse it very well. After it is completely dry I use a light viscosity lube gel in a spray can that my local dollar store sells. It has solvent in it that allows the stuff to penetrate between the plates and rollers. A dollar can will lubricate the chain at least twice. WD-40 is designed to displace water (that's where the "WD" comes from) and replace it with light oil. If you don't get all the water and detergent out you may end up with a rusty chain.

If it is too cold for this to work, try cleaning the chain with ordinary paint thinners. Stick the chain in a can and pour in half a cup of thinners. Swirl it around. Dump the solvent and grit. Repeat two or three times. Allow the chain to dry and then re-lubricate with some kind of decent lubricant meant for bikes.
VegasTriker is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 01:54 PM
  #5  
lungustefan
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
im not really looking forward to spending yet more money on other solvents and bike cleaning solutions,i'd like to use what i already have now.

What can i specifically do tomorow to remove this cranking vibration and sound while on the largest rear cogs?
lungustefan is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 02:11 PM
  #6  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 36,049

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 121 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4339 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Do a quick experiment.

Pour a small amount of cooking on your kitchen counter, and wipe it up with a paper tower. Now repeat the experiment with a paper towel you've first wet with water.

Same problem with oiling a newly washed chain. Like with a paper towel, oil wicks into the spaces within by capillary action. But it's can't do so if those spaces are already filled with water.

So, the first step is to try to dry and properly oil your chain. I find that a solar oven works best. If you own a car, put the bike inside with the windows closed except for a 1/2" crack, and let the sun heat it for a few hours. Then the chain should be ready to take up the oil and that should make a big difference.

Of course, there may be other factors, like a wheel shifted out of position, or the RD trim being off because the hanger got bent inward slightly or whatever. But since you want the chain properly lubed anyway, start with the solar oven.

Lastly a self-serving plug, so feel free to disregard, but not all oils work equally well at making chains run quietly. As a rule the teflon dry lubes tend to run noisier than other alternatives.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 02:18 PM
  #7  
lungustefan
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I dont understand why only the 1,2,3,4 and sometimes 5 cogs transmit vibrations to the pedals,and 6,7 not so much.

I've ridden the bike in pouring rain and it never happened like this.And yes,it was prelubed with mucoff before the rain.

i dont understand why i suddenly feel tons of vibrations even after lubbing it.
lungustefan is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 02:23 PM
  #8  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 36,049

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 121 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4339 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by lungustefan View Post
I dont understand why only the 1,2,3,4 and sometimes 5 cogs transmit vibrations to the pedals,and 6,7 not so much.

I've ridden the bike in pouring rain and it never happened like this.And yes,it was prelubed with mucoff before the rain.

i dont understand why i suddenly feel tons of vibrations even after lubbing it.
If, for example, the trim is a bit off you'd feel/hear it most in lower gears because the RD pulley is closest to the sprocket. In high gears (small sprockets) the greater distance between he pulley and sprocket gives the chain room to move over and make up the angle.

Also, lower gear sprockets tend to be less worn than higher gears. The chain wear pattern will match those more used sprockets, so an older drive train may be noisier in lower gears.

An experienced mechanic can speed through the diagnosis by listening and observing, but that's not possible over the net. Here we can only give possibilities and probabilities, but only someone with the bike in their hands can know.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 02:40 PM
  #9  
lungustefan
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
yes true,but i cannot explain why these vibrations appeared out of nowhere,right after wd40+soapy water clean+relube .and they are 10 times worse than before.Ofcouyrse,i had some vibrations before,but they were normal and unnoticeable,now they are in your face.
lungustefan is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 02:44 PM
  #10  
Dave Cutter
Senior Member
 
Dave Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D'uh... I am a Cutter
Posts: 6,195

Bikes: '17 Access Old Turnpike Gravel bike, '14 Trek 1.1, '13 Cannondale CAAD 10, '98 CAD 2, R300

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
You removed and refitted the rear wheel? My guess is it's not aligned/centered.
+1

Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
Cleaning and lubing your chain should not lead to the issues you describe, however, I don't know what possessed you to use soap and water on a steel chain. Stop that. Water on steel = rust. Just use wd 40 to clean in future.
Actually.... that is a common misconception. Rust is another name for iron oxide, which occurs when iron or an alloy that contains iron, like steel, is exposed to oxygen and moisture for a long period of time. Over time, the oxygen combines with the metal at an atomic level, forming a new compound called an oxide and weakening the bonds of the metal itself.

Oxidation is a natural process. The only way to avoid rust... is to never expose your metal parts to oxygen. Good luck with that.

The best way to add life to your moving metal parts is to keep them clean and free of abrasive grit. Hot soapy water is the fastest, cheapest, easiest, most natural way to do that. Then let the chain and other part completely dry.... and protect the metal from both oxygen and wear with a light coating of oil.



This is more or less the way (I think) a cog and chain would normally look. I didn't use half a $4 can of WD40 to clean it. I used maybe 8 cents of dawn dish soap and a toilet brush.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
DSCN0741.jpg (104.8 KB, 22 views)
Dave Cutter is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 03:19 PM
  #11  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 36,049

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 121 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4339 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
If, for example, the trim is a bit off you'd feel/hear it most in lower gears because the RD pulley is closest to the sprocket. In high gears (small sprockets) the greater distance between he pulley and sprocket gives the chain room to move over and make up the angle.

Also, lower gear sprockets tend to be less worn than higher gears. The chain wear pattern will match those more used sprockets, so an older drive train may be noisier in lower gears.

An experienced mechanic can speed through the diagnosis by listening and observing, but that's not possible over the net. Here we can only give possibilities and probabilities, but only someone with the bike in their hands can know.
I first answered, explaining that your wash technique might be the issue, then when you came back I listed other possibilities, now you're back to asking what you asked in the first place.

Instead of challenging the advice the others and I have offered, why don't you try something and see if it works. For my part, I have nothing else to offer, so I'm out.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 04-15-16, 04:07 PM
  #12  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,860
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
WD-40 stands for Water Displacement Formula #40 . it's NOT a good lube.

Being that the noise sounds like the chain on the rerar cogs I'd guess that somehow your rear derailler got out of allignment and now your indexing (it is an indexed system?) is not spot on.

Is this happenning with both chainrings on the front? Is your frunt derailler touching the chain

Do you have 7 cogs in back and 2 chainrings up front?
Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Old 04-16-16, 06:34 AM
  #13  
MuddyBikeRider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 140

Bikes: Haibike FS RS

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Have you tried putting it up on a rack, turning the crank and looking to see if the chain is centered on each cog? It might be that your shifter is getting old and not "precise", if you will, for each cog gear. In other words, instead of moving 1.00 it is moving .98 and by the time it gets to those gears, the chain is off centered. If that is the case you might want to GENTLY trying to bend your rear derailleur to get the best fit. As others have mentioned, WD40 isn't a lubricant.


MuddyBikeRider is offline  
Old 04-16-16, 09:13 AM
  #14  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 7,516

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1312 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Assuming alignment and adjustments are correct, a noisy drive train is usually an indication of the lack of lubrication. IMO there is no substitute for just plain oil.
rydabent is offline  
Old 04-16-16, 08:02 PM
  #15  
mrodgers
Senior Member
 
mrodgers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Western PA
Posts: 1,632

Bikes: 2014 Giant Escape 1

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Someone mentioned about you using water to clean it and how to remove the water (putting it in the car and letting the heat dry it out for example.)

You also mentioned using WD40 first, then using soap and water. Also mentioned by another post how WD40 is "Water Displacement #40 ." There's your answer to how to get the chain dry after using soap and water. Spray it with WD40 to remove the water. You did the opposite, used soap and water to remove the WD40.

WD40 is not a lubricant. After cleaning the chain and getting it dry (no matter what method) you need to use a chain lubricant to lube it.

How I clean my chain. I have 2 jars. I fill one with mineral spirits. I take the chain off and drop it in the jar with mineral spirits. After shaking a bit and letting it soak, I pull it out and wipe it with a towel. I install it back on the bike and use a chain lubricant to put a drop on each link. After letting the lubricant soak into the links and giving the chain a spin with the cranks, I spin the crank while holding a towel on the chain to remove any excess oil on the outside of the chain. I did it last night and my bike went from making all kinds of squeaks and noises to completely silent.

After cleaning the chain, while the grease and oils are suspended in the jar of mineral spirits, I pour the contents into the other jar which is the old material full of oils from previous cleanings. I let that jar sit for a day or 2 and the grease and oils settle to the bottom. I then decant the clean mineral spirits into the clean jar for use next time. A can of mineral spirits should last several years with this method.
mrodgers is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.