corrado33

For as long as I've owned nice road bikes (well, nice to me) I've never replaced the tires with a different kind. The tires that came on my Felt are the exact same kind that are on it today. Even though I've put thousands of miles on these tires, I've never felt the need to replace them. I've had no flats, no places where I've rubbed through, nothing of the sort. The sidewalls only recently started showing signs of wear (cracking more than anything.) I have replaced them once, but only with the exact same tire off of another Felt bike. (GF at the time didn't like the idea of "Smooth" tires.) Perhaps, as a light rider, I'm easy on tires.

Anyway, today I just ordered some very nice, well reviewed tires that have long since been considered the "standard" in road bike tires, and they're well loved across the internet. They certainly weren't cheap. They're considered "fast training" tires by many. Not as light as race tires due to the extra flat protection, but still light and low rolling resistance. I'll not mention names, as I don't want to turn this into a "my tires are better than your tires" thread.

Anyway, I'm not changing tire size at all. My old tires are 25 mm and my new ones are also sold as 25 mm. (For what that's worth.) However, I'm taking about a 150 TPI change on the new tires. (Higher TPI on new tires.) That probably explains the longevity of my old tires. They're also significantly lighter.

I've only changed tire brands once on a bike. I went from extremely cheap kendra 23s to the old felt branded 25s I took off my nice road bike. This was on my commuting bike. (Don't ask me why I had 23s on a commuting bike, I've learned a lot since then.) I immediately noticed a smoother ride on the wider tires.

So my question is this. Will I legitimately notice? Or will I notice because I spent money on them and I WANT to notice?

techsensei

This is why double-blind tests exist, so people are not influenced by preconceived notions. Anyway, if you think they ride or feel better, great! Get back to us if you get a flat or they wear out quickly though.

10 Wheels

Let Us know..

Gweedo1

That depends..maybe yes, maybe no. If the tires are sufficiently different, yes, you will probably notice some differences for the better or for the worse.

I recently bought some expensive tires that get good reviews to replace the cheap ass tires that came with my bike. In a nutshell, not worth the money. Slower re rolling resistance, only marginally smoother, but much better braking. Next time, I'm getting something cheaper, as in my case, the differences I did notice, informedme the tires aren't worth it, better braking or not. .

Seattle Forrest

Did you get GP4000s?

When I changed from Gatorskins to GPs the difference in ride quality was apparent.

FullGas

ditto.

night and day difference.

McBTC

I used to ride 23s but 25s are currently seen as the better choice because they offer the best of all worlds --i.e., greater comfort with even greater efficiency. I too now have Felt's 25s: once you pump'm up, maybe wait a week and, interestingly enough... the 25's actually measure out to ~27.5. So, you may actually be comparing your old 23s to ~28s.

Drew Eckhardt 

Maybe. There's 15-20W separating OK and fast tires at 20 MPH (up to 10% of the 200W it takes to average that), and more moving from bad tires.

Noticing would depend on whether you're measuring, trying to ride at the same speed, or going by feel...

The GP4000S feels better to me than the GP4Season which may or may not feel nicer than the Gatorskin. YMMV.

Wheever

GP 4000s were like night and day for me in every way. Methinks you'll be pleased. (If that's what you bought.)

canklecat

I noticed a big improvement in average speed when I switched from medium weight Specialized Hemisphere 700x38 to heavy Michelin puncture resistant 700x40 tires. My maximum speed dropped. My acceleration quickness decreased. And the Michelins are a bit rougher riding due to the more rigid bead and sidewall. But my average speed improved because I'm not stopping every few miles to fix flats.

OldTryGuy

We are all big boys and big girls around here, NEVER arguing , so please tell us what the new tires are and if you noticed a ride difference. Adding some personal bio information could help in making comparisons to you and your type of riding.

corrado33

Well, you guys are right, I got the 25mm GP 4000S IIs. However, the tires I replaced were certainly not cheap. The main reason for me wanting to replace the tires was A. I didn't know their history and B. So I'd have a matching set. The previous owner to my bike was no slouch when it came to buying parts for the bike. All of the replacement parts were high quality, and the tires were no exception. The one tire I can identify from the pictures (I'm not with the bike currently) was an old(?) 23mm specialized Mondo S-Works. What is essentially a race tire from what I learned in a 10 second google excursion.

I'm a 150lb rider who rides at an average of ~19 mph when I'm alone. I'm a "light" rider meaning I tend to be gentle on parts and tires. I like to spin, with an average cadence of 90-95 RPM. I currently don't ride as much as I run, but that's probably just leftover habits from the winter. During the summer I transition over to biking more than running, as it's generally more fun.

Anyway. I haven't really ridden the GP4000s enough to make a valid judgement, but they certainly made the ride quieter. I had posted in another thread that this bike was odd. Instead of having a smooth "whooshing" sound from the tires on the pavement, it was... loud. It sounded like the tire was constantly bouncing or riding over the shallowest rumble strip ever. I can't describe it well. It was almost like I was riding on the type of concrete that has been worn enough to expose the pea gravel inside of it. Despite that, the bike rode very smoothly, so I didn't mind. However, that noise is now gone. When I had first ridden the bike down the road (and over a set of railroad tracks) I said "WOW, these tires are EXTREMELY SMOOTH." Little did I know that I had pinched the ultra thin race tube upon installation and the tire was only at 50 PSI or so. I made it another quarter mile to the stoplight then had to turn around back to the shop. Luckily I had a pump and it was a slow leak so I just pumped the tire back up and that lasted me until I got back.

Unfortunately the weather around here has been... crappy lately. Enough to make me not want to take this particular bike out and instead ride my rain bike. The only ride I have on these tires is a ride on saturday into 15-20 MPH headwinds. (Not actually joking or exaggerating, it was honestly miserable. I almost had to get off my bike and push it into the wind (uphill as well) since I had no easier gears left...)

Anyway, I'll try to remember to update this thread in the future when I get a few hundred miles on the tires. So far I like them very well. They didn't seem to increase or decrease the rolling resistance compared to the old tires. They DO look odd on the land shark. Almost makes it look like it's wearing fat tires, even though they are only 25s. I'll have to take a picture.

So, in conclusion: So far the tires feel just as good or better than the tires that were on there, which were 23mm specialized mondo S-works tires which received mixed reviews online. (Not sure if the "mondo" tire and the "s-works" tire were the same tire, but I remember both being on the tires somewhere.)

maartendc

Good question:

I am thinking of upgrading from Gatorskins to GP4000's (both 25C).

To those who say you can notice: In what way are GP4000 better? Lighter? Better rolling resistance? More comfortable? Do they puncture more easily?

My tires arent worn out yet, so I only want to spend the money if the difference is noticeable.

Thanks!

andr0id

A lot of people think GP4Ks are the perfect compromise of price, weight, rolling resistance, and puncture resistance.

The rolling resistance is around 12w compared to 19w for Gatorskins. So that's 14w difference for 2 tires. You'll probably notice a difference.

They're not as puncture resistant. So if you have a lot of glass, thorns and such where you ride, you may flat more often.

They're lighter and have a different feel than Gators, you'll probably like it.

Be sure to inflate to suitable pressure for your weight. Most people run way too high tire pressure. I'm 185 and go 95psi rear and 75psi front. Never pinch flat and get a great ride with those pressures.

Go here to see more info about what is available.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

ypsetihw

FWIW I went from gators to conti's middle of the road tire, the GrandSport Race, and it is an incredible improvement in grip and feel. I don't know why but it seems like people forget there is something other than the gator and the gp4000 out there in the world. The GSR comes in 25 and 28, maybe bigger, has a super grippy rubber compound, rides much smoother, and can be had for $20/each on ebay. that checks all the boxes for me.

I liked my gators but they were very firm, and the hard rubber compound would slip when sprinting. I never punctured one, but I did cut one so badly it had to be trashed. so they aren't totally bulletproof. I also haven't flatted a GSR, but then again, I watch where I'm riding.

italktocats

i dont notice much riding in a straight line, but braking/cornering is totally different

Flip Flop Rider

if I am riding a lot and never getting flats, I'm not switching, just sayin

OldTryGuy

THANKS FOR THE INFO. Exactly what I think can help in product reviews. I am 5' 8.5", 140lbs, soon 66yo and ride cheapo Nashbar 23mm tires at 120psi that work well for me, rarely flat, love the rock hard feel and also ride LIGHT ON THE BIKE. Used to ride 100/110 cadence 30 years ago but have slowed that down, had a 18.4mph average for 112 miles in my last Ironman 2 years ago when I wasn't feeling the best (wasn't aware that I had aggressive prostate cancer at the time) and enjoy pushing hard when riding with the guys. I'm thinking about treating myself to some quality tires for upcoming distance rides and the rides I do with the guys.


Thanks for the link. Haven't seen a "W" comparison for my Nashbar tires so I am assuming that it could be substantially greater than 14W for two tires. My upcoming riding goals.....135 mile birthday ride July 10, my 66th, 100 mile memorial ride July 26 Truck-bike crash kills Pete Cornell, former U-M wrestler, Ann Arbor real estate professional, 2016 Six Gap in Sept., 200 mile pre-Halloween ride Oct. 29, 2016 Horrible Hundred in Nov., 2017 24hr Sebring Feb., and 2017 Cross Florida in April and any advantage a better tire will give me would be GREATLY appreciated.

maartendc

Thanks for the tip, I will look into those. I find the GP4000 a bit pricy too at $90 for the pair.

What about the Michelin Lithion 2? Anyone have experience with those?
They are pretty lightweight at 230g and the rolling resistance is better than the Gatorskins (although higher than the GP4000). They can be bought for $34 for a pair!

What about the Continental Ultra Sport 2? Can be had for $18 per tyre, weigh 240g, and have better rolling resistance than the Lithion 2's (slightly worse than GP4000)

ypsetihw

The GrandSport Race still has a nytech puncture barrier, to my knowledge the ultra sports do not. Also, the GrandSport Race has a grippier rubber compound, than the Ultrasport. I personally cannot speak to the Lithions

SpeshulEd 

Well, it sounds like you have already noticed a difference, but if you're still in denial, go take a tight corner at 25mph and you'll notice a night and day difference.

For those who don't want to spend the money on GP4000s, take a look at the Michelin Pro 4 Service Course, many will people praise them and swear by them instead of the GP4000s.

If you're looking for fast clincher tires on a road bike, those two along with some options from Schwalbe and Vittoria are probably your best options. If you're not really looking for speed, or a light tire, there are plenty of cheaper options out there that should do the trick. Remember, with the faster tires, they will wear faster too. I usually get around 2000 miles out of my GP4000s before I have to replace them.

maartendc

I am thinking of getting the Michelin Pro4 Service Course, heard good things about them, and they can be found for around $60 a pair. They have a little more rolling resistance than the GP4000's, but have a bit better puncture resistance.

They would be significant weight savings over my gatorskins too. The gatorskins are rated at 240g per tire for folding, and 310g per tire for wire bead.

How can I tell if my tire is folding or wire bead (it does not say on the tire wall)?

I took the tire off the rim yesterday, and it held its shape really well. It was quite difficult to fold too. Does that mean it is a wire bead tire? Or do folding tires get more "fixed" in their shape after being on the rim for a while?