jefnvk

That, and I actually got rear ended while pulling an empty snowmobile trailer by someone taking a quick glance and thinking there was a bigger gap than there was between us

At the end of the day, drive thrus are set up for people in passenger vehicles, I'm really not too concerned if an establishment limits their business strictly to that type of vehicle.

kevindsingleton 

Oh, I believe that people have assaulted fast food workers through the drive-thru window. I'm also willing to bet a small sum that, far and away, the vast majority of those who have done so are not "cyclists" by any definition on which we would both agree, and nearly every one of them started out in the drive-thru in their car.

Not as faulty as the assertion that McD's would be allowed by the court to be named as a defendant in a lawsuit involving a drunk driver rear-ending me on my bike in the drive-thru lane.

If the goal is to "eliminate foreseeable risk to injury on the premises", then banning bicycles in the drive-thru is a boondoggle. Far more injury and damage is done by motor vehicles. In fact, there is considerable danger of serious injury when two cars hit one another. I'm pretty sure you meant something else, when you said that. I have no idea what you mean by "your bike's foot". I'll keep trying to piece that together.

I haven't seen a single reason that bicycles should be banned from drive-thru service. There is much speculation, and ample conjecture, but precious little in the way of facts. I can't even find a single serious injury as a result of a collision between a motor vehicle and a bicycle in a drive-thru in my .06 seconds of searching on Google. I did find one article indicating that Salt Lake City passed an ordinance permitting bicycles in drive-thrus, and one involving a woman who dropped something out of her car window, opened the door to retrieve it, and subsequently released the brake, pinning herself between her car and the building, resulting in her death. That's just one car, no bicycles, and far worse than any car-bicycle accidents I was able to discover.

Just because someone disagrees with your position does not mean they are not being reasonable. Go ban something that needs to be banned. This ain't it.

BlazingPedals

I could take several guesses as to why McDonalds would have a policy against bicycles in the drive-thru; but most likely it's "safety concerns" which of course is a catch-all that can't be proven either way. Bottom line: It's their property and they're allowed to set their own rules. Most banks have a no-bicycles-in-the-drive-thru policy, too.

jefnvk

Do you support people being able to walk through a drive thru? I'm curious as to your opinion on that. What separates you on a bike from anyone else on a bike, or any other pedestrians, just because you are a cyclist? Every morning on my commute, I see plenty of people on bikes that are certainly not hanging out on these forums. Would you prefer they set themselves up for any number of discrimination lawsuits because they pick and choose which bike is OK because one is a cyclist and one is less kitted out and more homeless looking?

Anyone can name anyone in any lawsuit. Allowing incidents with foreseeable risk to happen on your property, and you can easily be held liable, and even if the incident isn't foreseeable, you're still likely to get the lawyers involved and cut a quick check over going to court in anything but the most ridiculous accusation. This is an incredibly basic concept. If Wal-Mart has to defend themselves in court because a police officer killed a man in their store holding a BB gun, I have absolutely no doubt McDonalds could be named if you are ordering a Big Mac and get run over.

Injury is not generally realized in fender benders between two vehicles, the speed simply does not exist in most situations to cause injury. Getting crushed between two cars, even at low speed, does cause very real injury, as does getting hit and getting caught under the bumper, as does getting hit and smacking your head on the hood. While I admit my wording was odd, if the person behind you has their foot slip off the brake and runs you into the back of a van in front of you, the injury you are likely to sustain is FAR greater than if those two cars had just run into each other. I've been rear ended twice in drive thru lines, it is hardly an unforseeable event. If I were on a bike, I'd think I'd have been worse off than a scratched bumper and a scratched trailer.

At the end of the day, what YOU want is not relevant to the policies a business decides to enact, it is their business and their right to run it in a way that is not contrary to established law. Your failing to see a reason to prohibit the practice is incredibly irrelevant, and I could likewise say that you don't see an issue exactly because such policies are in place. I fail to see why I HAVE to wear a shirt in McDonalds, but that is the rule, if I want to eat there, I wear the shirt.

Someone disagreeing with me is indeed not being unreasonable. Someone failing to see why such a rule exists, and insists on it being changed because they can't be bothered with any other reasonable options, is. If this is really that big of a deal to you, send them a letter through their web portal, boycott and go to the local ice cream joint which has a walk up window. I'm not really sure they'll miss your 49 cents worth of business over a long standing, understood-by-most, policy.

indyfabz

I change my mind. It's all part of a larger conspiracy on the part of bike-haters everywhere. They are taking away our freedoms! Grow your beards! Don your Birkenstocks! Organize protests! Start boycotts!

#bicyclefastfooddrivethrurightsmatter

italktocats

"no"

italktocats

so then ban cars, problem solved

I-Like-To-Bike

Whiny Bicyclists Matter!

indyfabz

I admire your perseverance in the face of someone who will not (or cannot) logically comprehend and evaluate the issues involved and the decisions that are made. Just from a basic business premise, it would be counter-productive to enact arbitrary rules that might drive away a certain segment of business. Only a poor business person would do that. What drives the decision here is there are increased risks associated with allowing pedestrians and bicyclist to use drive-thru lanes. You cannot have a logical discussion with someone who will not (or cannot) accept that. Once you do accept it, it's easy to understand that the prohibition is not arbitrary but rather one based on a cost-benefit analysis. Avoiding the additional risk is worth more than the loss of what is certainly a small segment of business. Yes. They won't earn his $0.49 worth of business, but they won't have to spend substantially more defending a personal injury law suit should something happen.

I work in an industry that, because if its nature, presents appreciable safety risks. Every now and again we get requests by outsiders to film things like movies and music videos on our property. Our blanket response is "No." Even though we would get paid a license fee and have our costs reimbursed, we don't allow it because the reward is not worth the added risk of allowing third-parties on our property, no matter how tightly the release of liability is worded.

indyfabz

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? The business is located on private property. No one operating any "legal vehicle" has the right, legal or otherwise, to drive wherever he or she pleases on someone else's private property.

Some of you need to take off your "Any restrictions related to bikes are put in place because of hostility to cyclists!" hats and think through the issues with at least some depth.

jefnvk

Except then the drive thru window becomes pointless, disappear, and the OP is still stuck either walking his bike in or carrying a lock

American Euchre

jefnvk

I leave on vacation Friday, most of my work on my desk is finished up, I'm just sitting around biding my time and rather bored

Everything you said is spot on, though, and spoken more articulately than I could have stated it.

kevindsingleton 

Yes. Well, "through a drive-thru lane".

I didn't say I am (although, I am).

I'm not sure who you are referring to as "they", or how you leapt to "homeless looking" (whatever that means). It almost seems as if you're trying to put words into my mouth.

Sure, but that doesn't mean the court will allow it. I'm pretty sure I included that part. Yep. I did. I guess you missed it.

As you wish.

And, yet, it just doesn't seem to be happening. The only example I could find in my (admittedly) cursory search, was an incident that resulted in only minor injuries, not the mass carnage you're predicting. Perhaps we are correcting a problem that simply does not exist?

Actually, as a customer, what I want is the only thing that matters. Regardless, I haven't mentioned what I want, in this discussion. What I did mention is that banning bicycles in drive-thru lanes doesn't really achieve the stated purpose, which is to satisfy the liability policy.

Have I insisted that the rule be changed? Have I not read and considered all the other "reasonable" options (none of which were reasonable to OP, at the time)? I did send a letter, I always "boycott" McDonald's (not really; I just don't go there, but it's not an active pursuit), and I do patronize the local ice cream shops, regularly. Besides, if the "long standing policy" is "understood-by-most", why are the store managers lying about the reason for the policy? I mean, if it's so clearly obvious why there is a company policy to protect you, why lie about it?

jefnvk

You admitted pedestrians and others have caused incidents at drive thru windows, and then went on to say they were not cyclists. The implication I read out of that is that cyclists are better than others, and therefore should be allowed special privileges.

It doesn't have to be "mass carnage". It only has to be a single incident. I have no idea where you get the idea that if someone is injured on your property, the courts will not hold you liable. I've had to hold $100k in personal liability on the past three apartments I've lived in, specifically in case someone injures themselves in the property I control. Here is one case in which a jury awarded $27M against McDonalds for a beating that happened on their property: Jury Awards $27 Million In McDonald?s Lawsuit Over Teens? Deaths

I've worked retail. As much as customers think they are right, and there is no argument otherwise, generally they are not. Most times, it is just easier to let them think they are right and bow to them, but that is not an absolute mandate to give them free reign of rules. As to why it is easier to lie and just say it is insurance, simply look at the effort you are putting forth to argue a rule that the majority of people can understand and follow, and imagine someone doing that at the restaurant.

If you're not arguing the rules need changed, I don't really understand the point of any of what you said.

Rollfast

That does lend itself to unsavory metaphors that wouldn't be covered here...

scott967

I liked the days when you just walked up to the window and got your 15 cent burger. I used to pull my front wheel and carry inside to an ice cream joint in Annapolis when I lived there.

scott s.
.

Rollfast

PS The reason is that you could hold the drive-thru up, rob them and get away with a lot less identification than a car with LICENSE PLATES and makes that are readily recognizable.

It's a security issue as well as safety.

If you cannot see your bike while ordering, get a lock.

Source: a friend that worked for Jack In The Box and let me because it was past 10 pm and nobody was coming through.

And please, no comments about McD's food, you make the same stuff just as badly or unhealthily as you suspect they do, and nobody survives World 1-1.

KD5NRH

I used to sit and listen to the dispatch every work night, and while I heard a lot of calls coming from drive-thrus about driveoffs, counterfeit bills and DUI drivers, not one of them was ever able to provide a license plate. If the car doesn't cooperatively pull up and stop in one of the pull-up-and-wait spots, they won't be able to read the plate. They were doing well to get a color half the time.

mccorpsman

Restaurant? McDonalds? I would have shouldered. One bike farkle I love are frame locks. Saw them for the first time on a trip to Amsterdam in 1981. They won't keep thieves away for more than a couple minutes, but they will help the honest stay that way and you'll never be without a lock.

Wittyname

I've taken my bike inside with me (and a friend with his!) to eat/pit stop and McDonalds before, no biggie. They don't want a bike in the drivethru, no worries, don't go through the drivethru. They can set their own rules if they want

Juan Foote

They did you a favor. Don't eat that ****.

CliffordK

On a recent bike tour, I stopped at a convenience store. One of the customers held the door open... so I thought that was a good idea so I rolled in

But, as far as drive-through windows. As long as they are willing to serve the cyclist... somewhere... I'm not too concerned, although it can be annoying, and I'm not sure what I would do with a refusal of service.

I was in Portland a while ago... quite some time ago... working on my house. Then decided to walk down to the local Wendy's for a hamburger. The lobby closed early, and they only had drive-up service. No choice to go inside. So I walked up to the drive-up window, and they refused to serve me without a car. I wasn't going to walk home to get the car to drive back down to the Wendy's drive-through.

That was the last time I went to that restaurant, day or evening, until it went out of business. I would hate to think a policy that would specifically exclude their local customers would be good for business.

smarkinson

Are bicycle's allowed through Drive Thru's?
McDonald's didn't serve me because I was on a bicycle ! You say it's because of health and safety issues but the drive through was empty and I served when me and a few friends pretended to be a transformer. So why then was I not served when I was on a bicycle ? The person didn't even give me a good reason just just said she can't serve me!

McDonald’s supports the health and environmental benefits of cycling, however it is our practice not to serve cyclists using the drive-thru lane or drive-thru service windows. The drive-thru facility is designed for motor vehicles and, on balance, we are concerned that use by cyclists could compromise their safety through: • the necessarily close proximity with motor vehicles; • the limited visibility of cycles (particularly given the sharp corners of the drive thru lane); and • the difficulties of carrying food and drinks and retaining full control of a bicycle. In reaching this view we have consulted with our own Hygiene and Safety Department, the Highway Code, and the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA).

From: Are bicycle's allowed through Drive Thru's? :: McDonalds.co.uk

1989Pre

Some people are nice. Some aren't. It is worth going through the weeds to get to the flowers. In a world where we treat eachother like human beings, you get your sundae. Just take it in perspective and appreciate the nice folks that you meet.