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'Time for physics to make its mark on cycling'

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'Time for physics to make its mark on cycling'

Old 07-26-16, 05:35 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by RandomTroll View Post

Remember that a person can ride a bike on a treadmill and never pedal..... or fall down. No matter what they try to say in that article, it's the gyroscope effect that keeps you upright and off the pavement (at a certain speed around 3-4 mph) and low speed is due to forces stronger moving forward than sideways (falling)

The articles do bring up some conversational but argumentative points. I got to go back and reread them again, good stuff. A little wacky and opinionated but good stuff!

Oh boy, is my e mail box going to fill up with quote e mails, LOL
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Old 07-26-16, 07:29 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by NYMXer View Post
Remember that a person can ride a bike on a treadmill and never pedal..... or fall down. No matter what they try to say in that article, it's the gyroscope effect that keeps you upright and off the pavement (at a certain speed around 3-4 mph) and low speed is due to forces stronger moving forward than sideways (falling)
You think these tiny wheels keep him upright?

Let's get rid of the wheels altogether:
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Old 07-26-16, 07:37 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Chris Bamford View Post
Thread drift alert! Automotively, some things never change. My motorized passion is vintage motorcars. Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to what component is common and totally interchangable between my 1906 Orient Buckboard, my Model T Ford and my bride's 2006 PT Cruiser? Without this component the vehicles are next to useless.

My car buddies rarely get this one, but I reckon cyclists will.
The driver. But we're working on getting rid of the driver too.
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Old 07-26-16, 08:57 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
A bicycle is a pretty simple machine but the devil is in the details. Anybody who thinks bikes haven't changed in 150 years is simply scoffing at the details.

"Not sure there's really anywhere else to go" That's just another way of saying you haven't thought of it yet but I agree that the simpler the machine, the harder it is to improve.

Right now aerodynamics is big. A fellow rode a streamlined recumbent 85 MPH this spring. Goes to show what can be accomplished by optimizing all of the details for a particular goal.

Another area of significant improvement has been the materials that a bike is made out of. That's not applied science and physics? I can remember thinking that a 22 lb. road bike was about as light weight as was possible. Today the pros have to ballast their bikes to bring them up to the 15 lb. UCI minimum.

Uh - and they call me a Retro Grouch. Maybe a little but at least I can recognize continuous improvement when I see it.
Why the 15 pound UCI limit? Again they are being little dictators.
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Old 07-26-16, 09:30 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Why the 15 pound UCI limit? Again they are being little dictators.
Why not?

Every racing organization has limiting rules. The guy who I mentioned that rode his recumbent 85 MPH - he had to have two separate TV cameras and displays to see where he was going (he doesn't have a window). Formula 1 has scads limiting rules.
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Old 07-26-16, 09:38 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius View Post
A motor?
Sorry, nope. Recall I stated the component is completely interchangeable amongst the '06 Orient, Model T and '06 PT Cruiser. So not the motor. Nor is it the gas, oil, air, or driver.

There aren't many hints I could offer that wouldn't just give it away, other than cyclists are more likely to get the answer than car guys and it's not a trick question.
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Old 07-26-16, 10:22 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Can't we generally say the same thing about the car, airplane and the boat?

The car still has four wheels. They're still made of rubber. The steering wheel is still round. The changes have been material, safety and performance improvements on the existing things.
Airplanes have two wings now mostly, monoplane (is that really one wing or two, I always count it as two, left and right wings), instead of 4 as in a biplane or 6 as in a triplane (red baron anyone).

And we mostly have turbo fan engines instead of combustion engine and propellers at least in the big planes. Even the small planes use variable pitch constant speed props compared to fixed props like in the good old days.

Also, about 100 years ago aircraft were mostly tail-draggers so they had a skid or tailwheel compared to the tricycle gear usually used today which uses a front wheel.

We could also go into the materials used, carbon fibre and aluminium versus wood and fabric.
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Old 07-26-16, 10:25 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
Except physics hasn't made it's mark. They still don't have the equations that govern a bicycle's motions. The article says how they've studied it a bunch, but then someone came along and proved all of those equations incorrect. Then it pretty much ends there.

The sad fact is that no one wants to pay for the research to figure out why bicycles stay upright.

You keep pedaling.


If you stop you have to step to the ground or fall over.


Please.
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Old 07-26-16, 10:26 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Chris Bamford View Post
Thread drift alert! Automotively, some things never change. My motorized passion is vintage motorcars. Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to what component is common and totally interchangable between my 1906 Orient Buckboard, my Model T Ford and my bride's 2006 PT Cruiser? Without this component the vehicles are next to useless.

My car buddies rarely get this one, but I reckon cyclists will.
Interesting question. Completely interchangeable between the two models. I'd hazard a guess that we are talking about bearings?
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Old 07-26-16, 10:55 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Chris Bamford View Post
Thread drift alert! Automotively, some things never change. My motorized passion is vintage motorcars. Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to what component is common and totally interchangable between my 1906 Orient Buckboard, my Model T Ford and my bride's 2006 PT Cruiser? Without this component the vehicles are next to useless.

My car buddies rarely get this one, but I reckon cyclists will.
Hmm, doesn't seem anything of size would be compatible, I'm guessing some small component... my guess would be sparkplug?
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Old 07-26-16, 11:17 PM
  #36  
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The seat...or seated driving position.
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Old 07-26-16, 11:50 PM
  #37  
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My first bicycle was used, and had been my older brothers. So... I can state with some certainty that bicycles have been basically unchanged for 65 years. My Dad's Roll-fast was near identical as well and was from the late 1930s. Even my first geared bike (a 1963 Schwinn Varsity 10 speed, with fiction shifters) is identical in most respects as current bikes.

Bicycles are what is called a mature technology. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for some big break-through.
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Old 07-27-16, 03:44 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Chris Bamford View Post
Thread drift alert! Automotively, some things never change. My motorized passion is vintage motorcars. Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to what component is common and totally interchangable between my 1906 Orient Buckboard, my Model T Ford and my bride's 2006 PT Cruiser? Without this component the vehicles are next to useless.

My car buddies rarely get this one, but I reckon cyclists will.
Sparkplug?
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Old 07-27-16, 05:13 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
Sparkplug?
Nope again, sorry.

As a matter of fact spark plugs come in a myriad of heat ranges and also various lengths and thread types. For example, the '06 Orient and Model T uses 1/2" pipe thread plugs whereas the PT Cruiser has 14 mm straight thread plugs and, heat range aside, they are not interchangeable.

Think of a particular component so well conceived that it has remained essentially unchanged for 100+ years. Not only does this component interchange between the various vehicles of my fleet, it does with the neighbor's elderly motorhome and my son's Ford Focus as well.

And I still think cyclists are more likely to get this than car guys. Don't prove me wrong!
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Old 07-27-16, 05:26 AM
  #40  
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disc brakes?
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Old 07-27-16, 05:27 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Chris Bamford View Post
Nope again, sorry.

As a matter of fact spark plugs come in a myriad of heat ranges and also various lengths and thread types. For example, the '06 Orient and Model T uses 1/2" pipe thread plugs whereas the PT Cruiser has 14 mm straight thread plugs and, heat range aside, they are not interchangeable.

Think of a particular component so well conceived that it has remained essentially unchanged for 100+ years. Not only does this component interchange between the various vehicles of my fleet, it does with the neighbor's elderly motorhome and my son's Ford Focus as well.

And I still think cyclists are more likely to get this than car guys. Don't prove me wrong!
Schrader valves for the tires?
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Old 07-27-16, 05:55 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Schrader valves for the tires?
BINGO!

Yes, the humble Schrader valve, so right, right from the beginning (and familiar to more cyclists than motorists for sure).

I've driven hundreds of vehicles over the years and this 1913 International Harvester "Highwheeler" is one of only two that didn't need Schrader valves to keep moving.
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Old 07-27-16, 06:37 AM
  #43  
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I still say that if the kind of thinking that produce the "rules" at the UCI ran the auto industry, we would still have hand cranks, carbs, wooden spoke wheels, and friction transmissions.
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Old 07-27-16, 07:05 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I still say that if the kind of thinking that produce the "rules" at the UCI ran the auto industry, we would still have hand cranks, carbs, wooden spoke wheels, and friction transmissions.
The UCI no more "runs" the bicycle industry than F1 or NASCAR rules "run" the auto industry. But pay no attention, keep beating the tom-toms of your alternate reality.
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Old 07-27-16, 09:01 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
disc brakes?
I'd like to try disc brakes! Particularly on a rain bike (also used in winter). But I can not see myself buying a new bike.... to use in the worst weather.

But a metal lever pushing down on a tire, a rubber pad squeezing a rim, or an actual disc brake.... these are small potatoes and not a major change in bicycle design.

The [only] three design changes of the bicycle that I am aware of is the original Dandy Horse, a running machine. The Velocipede which was created in many configurations.... all using a crank and pedals. And then the modern Safety bicycle using a gearing system connected with a chain, driveshaft, or belt. The most recent improvement to the safety bicycle is the addition of selected gearing.

But even Karl Drais's (Hobby Horse), running machine introduced in 1817 is easily recognizable as a bicycle... just as is the bike I ride today.

I think people get caught, or wrapped up in/with the idea of revolution in the design change of a mature product. People can devote their lives to such things... and rarely discover measurable improvement. Or improvements are found... (recumbent?)... but aren't immediately welcome because of issues with paradigms and well defined specs and regulations.
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Old 07-27-16, 09:29 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Or improvements are found... (recumbent?)... .
Wait, you said 'improvements."
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Old 07-27-16, 09:33 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
I'd like to try disc brakes! Particularly on a rain bike (also used in winter). But I can not see myself buying a new bike.... to use in the worst weather.
Just swap your fork and front wheel (or even just the hub) and have the best brake where you really need it. With a cable actuated caliper, you shouldn't need any other new components.
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Old 07-27-16, 09:59 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
I'd like to try disc brakes!


You have never ridden with disc brakes? Even on a mountain bike? Whoa. You do need to try them out. Hydraulic discs on a quality mountain bike. Braking with a single finger while descending at speed or sliding out around curves. It's a life changing thing.
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Old 07-27-16, 10:05 AM
  #49  
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This is just uninformed BS. The recumbent bicycle has been at the forefront of design development, and in fact, holds the land speed records. Nobody even tries to use an upright design at Battle Mountain. I have seen recumbent design go through tremendous change since the Early 80s, from the Easy Racer to today's lowriders and front-wheel drive recumbents. Anyone who thinks bicycle design has been static just hasn't been looking.
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Old 07-27-16, 12:06 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
From 22 lbs to 15 lbs is a 31.8% change. That's significant.
Yea, and I think that if you wanted to buy off the shelf or put together a light bike with commonly available components without any special modifications or real compromises in function or safety, I think 13 lb bikes can be said to be in the realm of normally-available top end bikes as a comparison to "best commonly available" 30 years ago.

Then talk about weight weenies. I read recently about a 6 pound geared bike. I don't know what the ultimate weigh weenie geared bike was 30 years ago, but I doubt it was much less than 18 lbs. Take the above 20+ pound bike and get all drillium on it?

a 30-40% weight reduction for typical high end
a 60-70% reduction for obsessively weight weenie

A lot of this is materials science - whether that's "physics" I'll leave that for the engineers and physicists to argue about. To me, the basic design of the typical road or utility bike has changed very little, but materials of the frame and wheels and materials and design of components (brakes and shifting especially) have changed a huge amount.

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