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Corrections on Carbon Fiber

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Old 07-27-16, 02:20 PM
  #1  
cyclintom
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Corrections on Carbon Fiber

For some reason people that don't know any better seem to think that they know about race cars.

Certainly a dragster is a race car but the open class is completely unlimited in every way.

Indy cars NEVER rebuild their engines. At the start of a season the team is allotted four engines and they may not make the slightest "repair" or they lose "points". Rebuilding an engine would disqualify the team.

F1 cars do not rebuild engines in the manner of a Chrysler town car. They are essentially new engines in every way. The block has the cyclinder liners replaced and the crankshafts are not reused. The heads are replaced and all that is attached to them from the fuel injection to the spark plugs. Even the distributor caps would normally be replaced because the ultra-high compression engines eat away at the spark plug gaps and cause increasing voltage that can do anything from exploding a spark plug insulator to burning holes though the caps. You don't take chances with a two bit part on a 2 million dollar car.

As I said elsewhere, stock car racing engines are bored out to the maximum displacement allowed by the rules (at least on pro level teams) and so the only way to "rebuild" the motor is like above - replace the cylinder liners. There are MANY tricks involved in these cars that are trade secrets that we don't talk about.

The discussion was about carbon fiber framesets and NOT automobiles. Moreover this group is defined as a bicycle discussion group so I won't discuss this any further than to suggest that if you believe otherwise you go talk to pro level team mechanics.

Or you can talk to your Canadian poster who averages 22 miles per hour on a 15 mile course daily if he is of normal weight.
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Old 07-27-16, 02:25 PM
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Old 07-27-16, 03:28 PM
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What do race car engines have to do with carbon bicycles?
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Old 07-27-16, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
What do race car engines have to do with carbon bicycles?
I think the car vs bike racing thread derailed into a discussion of race car engines.

OP is obviously miffed that people talk as if they are experts about things they know nothing about. I've come to expect that and not just here.

To do so is really arrogance and there is no shortage at BF.
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Old 07-27-16, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
To do so is really arrogance and there is no shortage at BF.
There is no shortage of arrogance anywhere, not here, not in my town and certainly widespread across the internet. I think others look at anyone who disagrees with their point of view as arrogance or even ignorance and well, that in itself is arrogance.

I once said that "some members advice are better than others" and I still stand by that statement. Some, are worth their weight in gold while others are good for a laugh.
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Old 07-27-16, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I think the car vs bike racing thread derailed into a discussion of race car engines.

OP is obviously miffed that people talk as if they are experts about things they know nothing about. I've come to expect that and not just here.

To do so is really arrogance and there is no shortage at BF.
I totally missed the other thread and was rather confused.
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Old 07-27-16, 06:26 PM
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I thought it was going to be a thread about CF repairs "corrections". On a different note, I didn't know F1 cars weren't allowed to rebuild without penalty during the season. I would have thought the cars were basically rebuilt after every race. I missed the other thread.
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Old 07-27-16, 06:32 PM
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Sigh.

A rally raced WRX starts out at the exact same place as a street WRX does: the dealership. They are the exact same car, with the exact same components. If you really wanted to, you could do nothing but add the required safety modifications and go race it as is (not that many do this, but you could). A WRX that is rallied is going to fall apart MUCH faster than one that is driven to school and church, despite them being thee exact same thing to begin with, and while you can buy ex-racers from Vermont Sport Car (the de facto Subaru factory team in the US), they certainly are not going to be warrantied as a used road driven Subaru would. Just because VSC gets rid of theirs on a yearly basis, does not mean your street WRX is only good for a year.

In any case, "rebuilding an engine" can mean anything from taking the heads off to a full blown overbore and upgrade, so you just described F1 engines being rebuilt.

Did I miss any points from that last thread?
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Old 07-27-16, 06:41 PM
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Old 07-27-16, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dksix View Post
I thought it was going to be a thread about CF repairs "corrections". On a different note, I didn't know F1 cars weren't allowed to rebuild without penalty during the season. I would have thought the cars were basically rebuilt after every race. I missed the other thread.
I think a few years ago they introduced a limit to the number of engines and gearboxes a team could use per season. Ostensibly to limit costs.

Wikipedia says this:

The engines, now referred to as power units, are divided into 6 components: the internal combustion engine (ICE); turbocharger (TC); Motor Generator Unit-Kinetic (MGU-K), which harvests energy that would normally be wasted under braking; Motor Generator Unit-Heat (MGU-H), which collects energy in the form of heat as it is expelled through the exhaust; Energy Store (ES), which functions as batteries, holding the energy gathered by the Motor Generator Units; and Control Electronics (CE), which includes the Electronic Control Unit and software used to manage the entire power unit. In 2015, each driver is allowed to use up to four of each component during a season that is up to 20 scheduled races in length; a fifth power unit (and its components) may be used without penalty if more than 20 races are scheduled to take place. A ten place starting grid penalty will be applied for the use of a power unit component used beyond the established allocation; a pit lane start for entire unit changes beyond the limit.

From what I have read it appears the engines are sealed after each event so teams are not allowed to strip and rebuild the engine:

After consultation with the relevant power unit supplier the FIA will attach seals to each of the relevant components within the power unit prior to them being used for the first time at an Event in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced. Within two hours of the end of the post race parc fermé exhaust blanking plates (with one 10mm diameter inspection hole per cylinder) and further seals will be applied to all used power unit components in order to ensure that they cannot be run or dismantled between Events. Upon request to the FIA these additional seals will be removed after the start of initial scrutineering at the next Event at which the power units are required. All such power units must remain within the team's designated garage area when not fitted to a car and may not be started at any time during an Event other than when fitted to a car eligible to participate in the Event.
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Old 07-27-16, 06:51 PM
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I'm confused. Are racing car engines really made of carbon fiber?
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Old 07-27-16, 06:55 PM
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We just had to close a very similar thread. This one is being closed, as well.
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