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Reasons for wheel upgrade?

Old 08-19-16, 09:04 AM
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dingadinga
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Reasons for wheel upgrade?

Other than speed, do people often look at comfort, handling, look, ..., as the main reason for wheel upgrade?
The following site shows different classes of wheels.
All Around Wheelset Hierarchy for Road Bike

What would be expected for intermediate riders (20~22mph avg on flat road) from first class to top class wheelsets?
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Old 08-19-16, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dingadinga View Post
What would be expected for intermediate riders (20~22mph avg on flat road) from first class to top class wheelsets?
I guess I'm intermediate, I ride with A groups but solo my cruising speed is @20 give or take a couple. I went from a 1800g wheelset stock to a 1400g set on my Focus. Actual speed I gained absolutely nothing, nor did I expect to. I bought them because they were cheap on clearance and I wanted to spend money. The lighter wheelset does ride smoother because it has butted (and fewer) spokes. Butted spokes have more give than straight gauge found on most stock wheels. The bad thing about the light wheels is I can feel them flex when I'm climbing and sprinting. But I'm no faster on my 16lb bike as I am my 24lb one with 27 inch wheels and a 6 speed freewheel. It's all about the engine.
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Old 08-19-16, 09:45 AM
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I bought new wheels for a different reason, strength. At 220 pounds, the stock wheels were in constant need of truing (about once a month, or 600 miles). That stopped the day I bought new wheels, which are also lighter than the stock wheels but I have not noticed any increase in speed. Luckily, I wasn't expecting any either.
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Old 08-19-16, 11:14 AM
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While contemplating a new bike recently, I saw plenty with Kyseriums, Fulcrums, etc... all with 18/20 spokes, 20/24, etc....

Not one of which I would consider due to low spoke counts.

Weighing 220 as well, I'll only use a 32 spoke hand built wheel.

I would much rather have reliability over any slight increase in speed or reduction in weight. Not to mention major cost differences of boutique wheels whose manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank.

Last edited by Steve B.; 08-19-16 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 08-19-16, 11:30 AM
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I buy light wheels because I can get them cheap (Vuelta Corsa lite--$220, 1570 g.) Strong enough (I am well over 220) and light and cheap----the impossible triangle.

I like buying stuff for my bike and light wheels make a real difference while climbing----all those highway overpasses out here in Flatahoma.
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Old 08-19-16, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
While contemplating a new bike recently, I saw plenty with Kyseriums, Fulcrums, etc... all with 18/20 spokes, 20/24, etc....

Not one if which I would consider due to low spoke counts.

Weighing 220 as well. I'll only use a 32 spoke hand built wheel.

I would much rather have reliability over any slight increase in speed or reduction in weight. Not to mention major cost differences do boutique wheels whose manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank.
I think you have terminology backwards.. A hand-built 32-spoke wheelset is the boutique wheel. Ksyriums/Fulcrums etc. are stock wheels from non-boutique and fairly large corporations.
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Old 08-19-16, 11:43 AM
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Aesthetics I guess, however it's subjective. I ride 80s vintage steel and put slightly modern components on, then found some modern wheels on CL. They are cheap Alex?wheels, but they were 50 bucks with new 4 season continental tires. I think the bike looks better with the modernized wheels.

Last edited by texaspandj; 08-19-16 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 08-19-16, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I think you have terminology backwards.. A hand-built 32-spoke wheelset is the boutique wheel. Ksyriums/Fulcrums etc. are stock wheels from non-boutique and fairly large corporations.
Yeah, I suspect you are correct. Back in the day, manufactured wheels - I.E. a wheel from a rim manufacturer built up at the factory, with their own hubs, spokes - I.E. a complete wheel, was considered "boutique"

But you're right, a hand built is now boutique.
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Old 08-19-16, 01:48 PM
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Many are upgrading to get a wider wheel for comfort.

I'm looking at the Hed Ardennes Plus SL for this reason.

21mm internal width, 1490 grams.

https://www.hedcycling.com/ardennes/...dennes-plus-sl


-Tim-
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Old 08-19-16, 02:15 PM
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The one time I "upgraded" was back in the early '90s when the back wheel of my '80s Schwinn 26" Cruiser Supreme commuter taco-ed on a curb. I was 185lbs, the bike, fenders and rack plus water was 48lbs and my backpack was probably another 20 lbs. The new wheel was lighter, stronger and by virtue of being new, had less rolling resistance. I felt like I was flying, but my average times were still the same. I'm much gentler on my bikes (and myself) now.
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Old 08-19-16, 02:23 PM
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Steel rims > Aluminum , for better braking.


You have to Work at going faster, its Not done by shopping.




Not assuming it will effect my speed , other than shorter braking in corners (&wet) so in control @ speed, better.






./.

Last edited by fietsbob; 09-10-16 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 08-19-16, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
You have to Work at going faster, its Not done by shopping.
Not always true. We upgraded my kid's race bike mid-season and he saw an instant and significant improvement on the same rides - even though the first ride was on a designated rest day. Lower weight, stiffer frame and lighter wheels made a quantifiable difference.
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Old 08-19-16, 02:53 PM
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SO ? Kids bikes are Heavy but they have energy to Burn

If you sure you can buy speed Only 2 questions ... Cash or Charge..


SPEND !


./
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Old 08-19-16, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I think you have terminology backwards.. A hand-built 32-spoke wheelset is the boutique wheel. Ksyriums/Fulcrums etc. are stock wheels from non-boutique and fairly large corporations.

Depends on the wheel. Ksyrium SLR is a lot more than my hand built wheels with Hope hubs and 32 spokes worth of DT swiss rims. 2016 Mavic Ksyrium Pro SL Road Clincher Wheel Set ? My Bike Shop

Fulcrum 0 aren't cheep either. Fulcrum Racing Zero Black Wheelset - 2 Way Fit 2016 | Chain Reaction Cycles

But it would be less expensive to build custom wheels than many Zipp sets. Zip 303s are about the same weight as my Hope DT Swiss and much more expensive.


Still I upgraded for climbing wheels because lighter wheels seem to work better going uphill. I have Mavics for my Klein with a back up set of Fulcrums but they are both mid grade and Aero for flat riding not climbing.

For me stock wheels tend to not be stiff enough and the spokes are often less sturdy than upgraded wheels.

Just my opinion but here it is: There is no upgrade made to your bike that you will notice more than going from stock wheels, mostly 2200 gram per set, to better stiffer wheels 1400 to 1600 grams to a set. At least that has been my experience. Just understand a big jump on a bicycle can be as little as 1 MPH on the flats and about the same climbing. But you may not feel as tired.

Last edited by Mobile 155; 08-19-16 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 08-19-16, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
I guess I'm intermediate, I ride with A groups but solo my cruising speed is @20 give or take a couple. I went from a 1800g wheelset stock to a 1400g set on my Focus. Actual speed I gained absolutely nothing, nor did I expect to. I bought them because they were cheap on clearance and I wanted to spend money. The lighter wheelset does ride smoother because it has butted (and fewer) spokes. Butted spokes have more give than straight gauge found on most stock wheels. The bad thing about the light wheels is I can feel them flex when I'm climbing and sprinting. But I'm no faster on my 16lb bike as I am my 24lb one with 27 inch wheels and a 6 speed freewheel. It's all about the engine.
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
While contemplating a new bike recently, I saw plenty with Kyseriums, Fulcrums, etc... all with 18/20 spokes, 20/24, etc....

Not one of which I would consider due to low spoke counts.

Weighing 220 as well, I'll only use a 32 spoke hand built wheel.

I would much rather have reliability over any slight increase in speed or reduction in weight. Not to mention major cost differences of boutique wheels whose manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank.

Yep, about where I'm coming from. I ride 36-spoke 27" rims on three out of four of my road bikes - the other has 36-spoke 700Cs...
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Old 08-19-16, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
SO ? Kids bikes are Heavy but they have energy to Burn

If you sure you can buy speed Only 2 questions ... Cash or Charge..


SPEND !


./

LOL. So much confusion. Which part of "race bike" confused you? My kid was 17 at the time. Neither bike would be considered heavy.

You can certainly buy speed. To claim that you can't is just silly.

Try again?
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Old 08-19-16, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ab antiquo View Post
LOL. So much confusion. Which part of "race bike" confused you? My kid was 17 at the time. Neither bike would be considered heavy.

You can certainly buy speed. To claim that you can't is just silly.

Try again?
The OP was suggesting 'intermediate riders', not racers. A properly-tensioned and trued 36-spoke wheel will be within 2% of a 'race' wheel. We 'intermediate' riders want reliability - well, at least I do. I had a set of hand-built-by-me 36-spoke wheels last for over 30,000 miles. I wish I had that set like that today!!!
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Old 08-19-16, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougrrcj View Post
The OP was suggesting 'intermediate riders', not racers. A properly-tensioned and trued 36-spoke wheel will be within 2% of a 'race' wheel. We 'intermediate' riders want reliability - well, at least I do. I had a set of hand-built-by-me 36-spoke wheels last for over 30,000 miles. I wish I had that set like that today!!!
The OP's question notwithstanding, fietsbob's claim was inane. Hence my reply.

Your "2%" claim is equally amusing since you seem to be solely focused on road applications. How did you determine that a 36 spoke wheel is within 2% of a race wheel? What race wheel? What 36 spoke wheel? What course? What metric?
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Old 08-19-16, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
You have to Work at going faster, its Not done by shopping.
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Old 08-19-16, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Depends on the wheel. Ksyrium SLR is a lot more than my hand built wheels with Hope hubs and 32 spokes worth of DT swiss rims. 2016 Mavic Ksyrium Pro SL Road Clincher Wheel Set ? My Bike Shop

Fulcrum 0 aren't cheep either. Fulcrum Racing Zero Black Wheelset - 2 Way Fit 2016 | Chain Reaction Cycles

But it would be less expensive to build custom wheels than many Zipp sets. Zip 303s are about the same weight as my Hope DT Swiss and much more expensive.


Still I upgraded for climbing wheels because lighter wheels seem to work better going uphill. I have Mavics for my Klein with a back up set of Fulcrums but they are both mid grade and Aero for flat riding not climbing.

For me stock wheels tend to not be stiff enough and the spokes are often less sturdy than upgraded wheels.

Just my opinion but here it is: There is no upgrade made to your bike that you will notice more than going from stock wheels, mostly 2200 gram per set, to better stiffer wheels 1400 to 1600 grams to a set. At least that has been my experience. Just understand a big jump on a bicycle can be as little as 1 MPH on the flats and about the same climbing. But you may not feel as tired.
A couple terms we should set straight (IMO)
"Hand Built" wheels: As far as I know, just about all wheels are assembled by hand. I think we're all really talking about custom-specced.
"Boutique": I wouldn't say price by itself designates something is or isn't boutique.
"Stock": There's "stock" in terms of what comes on a pre-assembled full bike, vs. "stock" -- any wheel in a current wheel maker's lineup. Eg. A Campy Eurus is a "stock" wheel, but probably doesn't come "stock" on any pre-configured bike.
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Old 08-19-16, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
"Hand Built" wheels: As far as I know, just about all wheels are assembled by hand.
As far as I know, you don't know much.



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Old 08-19-16, 03:59 PM
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thought we were discussing wheels of some level of quality. Hope and Ryde brand wheels? really? Probably Alex are made this way too.
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Old 08-19-16, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
thought we were discussing wheels of some level of quality. Hope and Ryde brand wheels? really? Probably Alex are made this way too.
"just about all wheels are assembled by hand"

You'll need to ask the guy who posted that.
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Old 08-19-16, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
A couple terms we should set straight (IMO)
"Hand Built" wheels: As far as I know, just about all wheels are assembled by hand. I think we're all really talking about custom-specced.
.
As far as I know, most stock wheels on cheaper bikes are machine built. As in, spokes installed, threaded, tightened, etc... I had always read that a machine cannot (or is not programmed to) do a stress relief and re-tighten. Which is the sole reason hand builts are better - stress relief.

I wonder if Kyseriums, etc.... are machine built and I suspect so.
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Old 08-19-16, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ab antiquo View Post
Your "2%" claim is equally amusing since you seem to be solely focused on road applications.
OP was talking 'road applications'.
Originally Posted by ab antiquo View Post
How did you determine that a 36 spoke wheel is within 2% of a race wheel? What race wheel? What 36 spoke wheel? What course? What metric?
Speed. You seem to be fixated with speed. But no, not really. I prefer to think in 'energy expended' or efficiency.

I've ridden many a wheel that wasted a bunch of energy, BUT - properly tune and tension that same wheel and it'll make a butt-load of difference! 36, 32, 40, or 28-spoke is, for the most part, irrelevant. Yes, yes, you have more aero drag with more spokes, I know that. But comparing a 20-spoke 'race wheel' that is improperly tensioned to a 36-spoke that tensioned properly? Guess which one will be faster, 9/10 times!

By that same thought, a properly tensioned set of wheels can make even a heavy 'gas-pipe' frame seem faster than a lighter CrMo, butted CrMo, Al or CF with 'bad wheels'.

A 'good' set of wheels is always the best 'bang-for-the-buck'. Sure, you can cut a half-kilogram of the frame or other components and try to justify the weight savings as the reason for improvement, but a properly-built set of wheels can make or break your riding experience!!!
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