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Why isn't the bike industry selling more lifestyle?

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Why isn't the bike industry selling more lifestyle?

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Old 08-10-18, 07:43 AM
  #326  
indyfabz
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Lock a $1000+ bike with nice accessories up (lights, panniers, brooks saddle, nice groupset etc...) to go to a movie for a couple of hours at a mall or all day while you catch a train or outside a downtown office building... I don't think so. It will either be stolen or stripped.
I commute regularly on my Surly LHT fitted with close to $450 worth of racks and lock it up outside my office building for the day in the middle of the 5th most populous city in the U.S. It's there right now. I also ride it to movies and dinner in the city. I typically remove the small saddle bag and sometimes the lights, but that's it.

I've been locking bikes up in the city for decades. Only place I ever had a bike stolen was from inside my house, while I was home, and awake. Guy took my custom racks along with the LHT they were attached to. Fortunately, he left the GF's and my custom road bike behind.
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Old 08-10-18, 08:37 AM
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See .... that proves that theft is the greatest deterrent to people having bike sin their homes. That's why we see so many locked up outside, i guess.
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Old 08-10-18, 08:42 AM
  #328  
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There's 17 or 18 million bikes being sold in the US every year--how much bigger could the market get?

Strikes me that all this lifestyle marketing talk is really about figuring a way to make bikes and accessories more expensive by tying bicycling together with people's sense of identity and status. Count me against.
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Old 08-10-18, 08:55 AM
  #329  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Strikes me that all this lifestyle marketing talk is really about figuring a way to make bikes and accessories more expensive by tying bicycling together with people's sense of identity and status. Count me against.
Well .... if there is a sort of upscale-modern-yuppie, stylie-trendy market niche, why not fill it? Why not sell cheap cruisers with flashy paint and leather seat bags for outrageous prices ... if people want to buy them. Or if people can be convinced to buy them?

jade408 seems to think that a lot of those folks might add some urban cycling into their weekly routine, and thus help cycling spread into even more places ... which is wholly good, if to me, wholly fantastic. I don
t care how many million bikes are sold .... i want more people riding on the street, because my survival odds go up as more motorists learn to cope with cyclists. And if wealthy yuppie-types are riding, you know law enforcement won't blow it off when one gets hit, because the cops knows who pays the taxes and thus their salaries ... and where the next crop of city councilors might be incubating.

I seriously wouldn't mind if some parts of America were more like some parts of Europe, where riding a bike is done as a matter of course, like we see driving a car.

I rarely ride on the roads where those folks would ride ... so no loss to me either way.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:00 AM
  #330  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
There's 17 or 18 million bikes being sold in the US every year--how much bigger could the market get?

Strikes me that all this lifestyle marketing talk is really about figuring a way to make bikes and accessories more expensive by tying bicycling together with people's sense of identity and status. Count me against.
You mean that you wouldn't stand in line outside the Apple Store, if Apple announced that it now offered a bicycle for $599 (previously sold at Target for $200) that included an Apple logo decal and a handlebar holder only good for Apple brand phones ? There must be at least a million "lifestyle" obsessed consumers who would.

Maybe a Ralpha logo decal would work for a few BF posters.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:04 AM
  #331  
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I'd do a Halo or Counter-strike-themed bike for about $1200-$2K and throw in a Sony X-box ... get the gamers off their couches.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:13 AM
  #332  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Well .... if there is a sort of upscale-modern-yuppie, stylie-trendy market niche, why not fill it? Why not sell cheap cruisers with flashy paint and leather seat bags for outrageous prices ... if people want to buy them. Or if people can be convinced to buy them?

jade408 seems to think that a lot of those folks might add some urban cycling into their weekly routine, and thus help cycling spread into even more places ... which is wholly good, if to me, wholly fantastic. I don
t care how many million bikes are sold .... i want more people riding on the street, because my survival odds go up as more motorists learn to cope with cyclists. And if wealthy yuppie-types are riding, you know law enforcement won't blow it off when one gets hit, because the cops knows who pays the taxes and thus their salaries ... and where the next crop of city councilors might be incubating.

I seriously wouldn't mind if some parts of America were more like some parts of Europe, where riding a bike is done as a matter of course, like we see driving a car.

I rarely ride on the roads where those folks would ride ... so no loss to me either way.

You want to increase the number of riders around therse parts? Change the climate, literally.

Oh, yeah, we're working on that. Of course, it will be a bit harder to ride when the coast is under water.

But really, I'm seeing more riders out there now than I have ever before, and I'm 57 and remember the bike boom. If you ride the MUPs/rail trails at all, you're seeing numbers of recreational riders and/or commuters beyond anything in the last 75 years or so.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:51 AM
  #333  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Well .... if there is a sort of upscale-modern-yuppie, stylie-trendy market niche, why not fill it? Why not sell cheap cruisers with flashy paint and leather seat bags for outrageous prices ... if people want to buy them. Or if people can be convinced to buy them?
Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
… Class-promoting, elitist….
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
Well @Maelochs, as I have briefly described, my cycling lifestyle has involved just riding around, utility cycling, touring, road cycling and now mostly commuting

I think my lifestyle has been all-encompassing, though I do think of it in “niches.”
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I don't think car-free [commuting] is what the OP is discussing
Nonetheless, if you consider cycle commuting as a “niche” within this overall trendy market, FYA was this recent thread on the Living Car Forum, “
How Cars Divide America - from Citylab“:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
A major premise of this article is:

“For one, the geography of car use tracks with income and wealth: Car-dependent places are considerably less affluent. Metros in which a higher share of people depend on their cars to get to work are poorer, and those where more people use transit or bike or walk to work are considerably more affluent. The share of commuters who drive to work alone is negatively correlated with both wages and income

Conversely, in more affluent metros, a higher proportion of commuters use transit, walk, or bike.”

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Old 08-10-18, 09:54 AM
  #334  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I commute regularly on my Surly LHT fitted with close to $450 worth of racks and lock it up outside my office building for the day in the middle of the 5th most populous city in the U.S. It's there right now. I also ride it to movies and dinner in the city. I typically remove the small saddle bag and sometimes the lights, but that's it.

I've been locking bikes up in the city for decades. Only place I ever had a bike stolen was from inside my house, while I was home, and awake. Guy took my custom racks along with the LHT they were attached to. Fortunately, he left the GF's and my custom road bike behind.
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
See .... that proves that theft is the greatest deterrent to people having bike sin their homes. That's why we see so many locked up outside, i guess.
This is simply a case of statistics breaking down at the individual level. You have been lucky so far that theft has not occurred. However, I find it incredulous that anyone would argue that theft from unsecure locations is not a concern for more expensive upscale bikes. I also honestly don't understand the push back in regards to the barrier this produces when thinking of marketing (presumably) upscale bikes to a market as a "lifestyle" instead of activity specific. From my vantage point people tend to ride expensive bikes from one secure location to another secure location (performing an activity) so if your lifestyle concept includes that it will work well enough but if lifestyle suggests traveling throughout the day to various unexpected and unsecured locales people will shy away from purchasing an expensive bike to do that. I don't get why one would argue that point that appears to play itself out over and over in every bike centric location I at least have experienced. People aren't generally locking up and leaving expensive bikes for long periods of time where they can't be monitored. How do you convince upscale type folks that are usually pretty savvy about the fiscal value of things to do that?

Next up: how to convince an upscale demographic arriving at social venues with helmet hair and moist pits is a "good" thing.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:59 AM
  #335  
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I admire Happy feet for his persistence---no matter what this thread might be about or what people might actually be discussing, he just forges forward with his own discussion, echoing through the empty space between him and the people actually participating in the thread.
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Old 08-10-18, 10:25 AM
  #336  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
… I find it incredulous that anyone would argue that theft from unsecure locations is not a concern for more expensive upscale bikes.

From my vantage point people tend to ride expensive bikes from one secure location to another secure location (performing an activity) so if your lifestyle concept includes that it will work well enough but if lifestyle suggests traveling throughout the day to various unexpected and unsecured locales people will shy away from purchasing an expensive bike to do that

People aren't generally locking up and leaving expensive bikes for long periods of time where they can't be monitored. How do you convince upscale type folks that are usually pretty savvy about the fiscal value of things to do that?

Next up: how to convince an upscale demographic arriving at social venues with helmet hair and moist pits is a "good" thing.
FYA, I posted to this previous thread in the LCF Forum,”Car-Free outings for otherwise car-heavies.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
Now that I get the concept of “going out,” I have a few further thoughts. I previously replied that for my wife and I, one of our weekly outings involves getting dressed up. We could get to our Social Club about five miles away by subway, but we drive to save time [and stay neat]...

A personal damper for me to ride my bike to an outing is that I don’t bring a lock anywhere, since I don’t leave my bike out of my control. i.e. unattended only at home and my secure parking at work

So I think that to purposefully make “going out” an LCF activity, makes it an LCF activity with an intended destination. For me it’s only ordinary and comfortable to go out LCF when the destination/activity and route makes it an ordinary outing.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
… My cycling reputation, mundane as my cycling might be to the hard-core cyclists, is always a source of amusement and conversation with my friends and acquaintances; e.g. in bad weather, “You didn’t ride your bike today, did you?,” or at fancy social events, “Did you ride your bike here?.” Always asked with amusement and respect

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Old 08-10-18, 10:28 AM
  #337  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Change the climate, literally.
Coming right up...
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Old 08-10-18, 10:38 AM
  #338  
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Again ... not the "Lifestyle ' the thread is about .....

And even when the OP talked about going out on a bike,t he situation was one in which people could do tyhe ride in normal (Not formal) clothes and the bike woudl be secure. Again, read the thread, don't hijack it.

Not many people go to formal events .... and not many go ballroom dancing any more. But, Mr. Jim from well east of Worcester, I'd bet that if you, in your tie and tails, went up to the doorman at the ballroom and asked to leave your bike in a secure storage room or an equipment closet or something, being as you were obviously wealthy and well-bred, you'd get a positive response. Might be best to ask in advance. And you might have to tow the gowned wife in a Burley.

As for more people riding bikes as the wealth goes up .... I see a Ton of junk science every day. The result tracks with the questions to prove the expectation over and over ... because the right questions are asked, For instance .... how many undocumented workers responded? What locales were polled?

I can believe that cycle-commuting is most prevalent above minimum wage ... but the idea that more wealthy people use mass transit, too ... maybe NYC. not in a lot of other cities I have been in maybe DC, where govenrment functionaries took the train a lot. otherwise ... wealthy people could afford to drive ... until the could afford to be driven. Cycle-commuting as I have seen it has always been the domain of the middle-class eccentric.

Is Eccentricville on the Charles River?
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Old 08-10-18, 10:50 AM
  #339  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
People aren't generally locking up and leaving expensive bikes for long periods of time where they can't be monitored. How do you convince upscale type folks that are usually pretty savvy about the fiscal value of things to do that?.
I see a good number of $1000+ bikes locked up every day during work hours. I'd estimate that 100 people walk by my bike every minute or so. With the good lock that would take some serious work to get through, I am not worried about it being stolen while I am at work. I am an upscale folk savvy about the fiscal value of thing and I convinced myself.
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Old 08-10-18, 11:02 AM
  #340  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
^You need an MTB briefcase, in other words.

I'm just fine with my Timbuk2, thank you. The only bike-specific one I could possibly need would be something like the Carradice one that attaches in the rear pannier position.
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Old 08-10-18, 11:03 AM
  #341  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Again ... not the "Lifestyle ' the thread is about .....

And even when the OP talked about going out on a bike,t he situation was one in which people could do tyhe ride in normal (Not formal) clothes and the bike woudl be secure. Again, read the thread, don't hijack it.

Not many people go to formal events .... and not many go ballroom dancing any more. But, Mr. Jim from well east of Worcester, I'd bet that if you, in your tie and tails, went up to the doorman at the ballroom and asked to leave your bike in a secure storage room or an equipment closet or something, being as you were obviously wealthy and well-bred, you'd get a positive response. Might be best to ask in advance. And you might have to tow the gowned wife in a Burley.

As for more people riding bikes as the wealth goes up .... I see a Ton of junk science every day. The result tracks with the questions to prove the expectation over and over ... because the right questions are asked, For instance .... how many undocumented workers responded? What locales were polled?

I can believe that cycle-commuting is most prevalent above minimum wage ... but the idea that more wealthy people use mass transit, too ... maybe NYC. not in a lot of other cities I have been in maybe DC, where govenrment functionaries took the train a lot. otherwise ... wealthy people could afford to drive ... until the could afford to be driven. Cycle-commuting as I have seen it has always been the domain of the middle-class eccentric.

Is Eccentricville on the Charles River?
Jim from a city just outside the Greater Providence Metropolitan Area is from a city I have always found easier to navigate by bike and public transit than by car. This is also true of the Bay Area on that other coast where I used to live.

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Old 08-10-18, 11:13 AM
  #342  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I'd do a Halo or Counter-strike-themed bike for about $1200-$2K and throw in a Sony X-box ... get the gamers off their couches.
I'd like to see a steel road bike from Colnago accessorized to look like the Resistance fighters from Star Wars! Or something based on transformers, but still with Campy Record.
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Old 08-10-18, 12:46 PM
  #343  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Again ... not the "Lifestyle ' the thread is about .....

And even when the OP talked about going out on a bike,the situation was one in which people could do the ride in normal (Not formal) clothes and the bike would be secure. Again, read the thread, don't hijack it
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Happy feet .... i should have said this earlier, but it didn't occur to me .... This thread is about Lifestyle Advertising ... . not cyclign as a life style.

The person who started it, jade408 is i think, in advertising or design. Her idea is that cycling should be promoted through what are called 'lifestyle" commercials, where people live life and have fun and in the background, is a Buick, or a drug name, or a soft drink, or a bike.
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Well .... if there is a sort of upscale-modern-yuppie, stylie-trendy market niche, why not fill it? Why not sell cheap cruisers with flashy paint and leather seat bags for outrageous prices ... if people want to buy them. Or if people can be convinced to buy them?
As for more people riding bikes as the wealth goes up .... I see a Ton of junk science every day. The result tracks with the questions to prove the expectation over and over ... because the right questions are asked, For instance .... how many undocumented workers responded? What locales were polled?

I can believe that cycle-commuting is most prevalent above minimum wage ... but the idea that more wealthy people use mass transit, too ... maybe NYC. not in a lot of other cities I have been in maybe DC, where govenrment functionaries took the train a lot. otherwise ... wealthy people could afford to drive ... until the could afford to be driven. Cycle-commuting as I have seen it has always been the domain of the middle-class eccentric.

Is Eccentricville on the Charles River?
It seems to me, @Maelochs, you are confining the discussion in this thread to the “upscale-modern-yuppie, stylie-trendy market niche,” and as you point out, this is the intent of the OP, and that’s fine. Nonetheless, I think this is a narrow, and dabbling segment of the cycling lifestyle universe. There’s not even a BF Forum for them.

To perhaps further characterize that subset:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
How Cars Divide America - from Citylab
A major premise of this article is:

“For one, the geography of car use tracks with income and wealth: Car-dependent places are considerably less affluent. Metros in which a higher share of people depend on their cars to get to work are poorer, and those where more people use transit or bike or walk to work are considerably more affluent. The share of commuters who drive to work alone is negatively correlated with both wages and income

Conversely, in more affluent metros, a higher proportion of commuters use transit, walk, or bike.”

I was interested to note that the author is Richard Florida:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Florida is best known for his concept of the creative class and its implications for urban regeneration. This idea was expressed in Florida's best-selling books The Rise of the Creative Class (2002), Cities and the Creative Class, and The Flight of the Creative Class, and later published a book focusing on the issues surrounding urban renewal and talent migration, titled Who's Your City?

Florida's theory asserts that metropolitan regions with high concentrations of technology workers, artists, musicians, lesbians and gay men, and a group he describes as "high bohemians", exhibit a higher level of economic development. Florida refers to these groups collectively as the "creative class." He posits that the creative class fosters an open, dynamic, personal and professional urban environment.

This environment, in turn, attracts more creative people, as well as businesses and capital
.
Just this week I got involved in this thread, “More Bike Commuters.In a ranking of America's Leading Creative Class Cities in 2015 (link), three of [Eccentricvilles’s] inner suburbs rank: Brookline (#5), Cambridge (#7), and Newton (#8).
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Jim from a city just outside the Greater Providence Metropolitan Area is from a city I have always found easier to navigate by bike and public transit than by car. This is also true of the Bay Area on that other coast where I used to live.
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Old 08-10-18, 01:25 PM
  #344  
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The "Living Car Free" forum is metastisizing. I vowed never to return to that swamp ... and the muck is oozing out to find me.

I used to be a high Bohemian ... but i quit that stuff. maybe that's why i am not more wealthy? And live in the sticks?

Anyway .. . I have been Deliberatley trying to keep this discussion on topic. As i repeatedly suggested to Happy_feet, s/he could Start any number of threads on whatever topics pleased him/her.

It doesn't matter---S/he will start fighting with IndyFabz over why no one has stolen any of IndyFabz's bikes, and i won't have anything more to add.

And if I do post .. . you Eccentricvillians will gang up on me.
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Old 08-10-18, 01:27 PM
  #345  
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
Maelochs, you are confining the discussion in this thread to the “upscale-modern-yuppie, stylie-trendy market niche,” and as you point out, this is the intent of the OP, and that’s fine. Nonetheless, I think this is a narrow, and dabbling segment of the cycling lifestyle universe. There’s not even a BF Forum for them.
Sure there are, the following lists cater chiefly to various sub sections of that narrow niche of the cycling universe.
Classic & Vintage
Fifty Plus (50+)
Fitting Your Bike
Road Cycling
Tandem Cycling
Touring
Training & Nutrition
Triathlon
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Old 08-10-18, 03:13 PM
  #346  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I'd do a Halo or Counter-strike-themed bike for about $1200-$2K and throw in a Sony X-box ... get the gamers off their couches.
Game-boy or maybe Switch mount on the handlebars, and built-in mp3 player, with BT headphones of course. Gamers like their headsets.

What *I* think is really needed for the "lifestyle" branded bike is: motors. Discreet, of course, since the point is that image of blissful pedaling along in glowing physical health, but the key I think is "effortlessly" doing it.
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Old 08-10-18, 03:14 PM
  #347  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Sure there are, the following lists cater chiefly to various sub sections of that narrow niche of the cycling universe.
Classic & Vintage
Fifty Plus (50+)
Fitting Your Bike
Road Cycling
Tandem Cycling
Touring
Training & Nutrition
Triathlon
If you think that 50+ belongs on that list, you obviously don't know what the Y in yuppie stands for.
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Old 08-10-18, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Game-boy or maybe Switch mount on the handlebars, and built-in mp3 player, with BT headphones of course. Gamers like their headsets.

What *I* think is really needed for the "lifestyle" branded bike is: motors. Discreet, of course, since the point is that image of blissful pedaling along in glowing physical health, but the key I think is "effortlessly" doing it.
Put an espresso machine on it. That way the steam engine driving the bike can hide in plain sight.
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Old 08-10-18, 03:28 PM
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wphamilton
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Put an espresso machine on it. That way the steam engine driving the bike can hide in plain sight.
Not bad actually, coffee dispenser from fresh-ground beans, while on the go or sharing with your soul-mate during a quick stop at that idyllic field, gentle breeze with flowers and butterflies.
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Old 08-10-18, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Not bad actually, coffee dispenser from fresh-ground beans, while on the go or sharing with your soul-mate during a quick stop at that idyllic field, gentle breeze with flowers and butterflies.
There's a man who understands lifestyle advertising.
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