Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Tarmac - disc or rim brakes?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Tarmac - disc or rim brakes?

Old 09-19-16, 12:20 PM
  #1  
bdime
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8

Bikes: Marin LE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tarmac - disc or rim brakes?

I know this has been beaten to death but I'm going to make a purchase and want some input.

I'm buying a Tarmac (after testing the new Roubaix). Either the Expert or Expert Disc. The only difference that I can find are the shift levers (Ultegra 6800 vs. ST-RS685) and of course the rim brakes (Ultegra) vs. disc brakes (Shimano BR-785 ice-tech). Per Specialized, the weight difference is 3/4 lbs.

Any opinions...besides a different brand? Price difference is $200.

Thanks!
bdime is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 12:30 PM
  #2  
Dave Mayer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,273
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1004 Post(s)
Liked 300 Times in 190 Posts
If you're doing loaded touring in the rain, then go for the disks. Otherwise, the cost and weight penalty is not worth it; rim brakes are more than adequate. Another consideration is the stigma of disks while riding with an experienced pack. Nothing indicates a newb road rider more than disks.

Last edited by Dave Mayer; 09-19-16 at 12:32 PM. Reason: speling
Dave Mayer is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 12:35 PM
  #3  
Jofu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 238

Bikes: 2015 Spec Roubaix Expert, 2016 Spec Diverge Expert X1, 2018 Allez Sprint eTap

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by bdime View Post
Per Specialized, the weight difference is 3/4 lbs.
Sorry, no answer to your question... But where did you get bike weight from Specialized? As far as I know, they're purposefully not showing that on their website Or did I completely miss it?


Geoff
Jofu is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 12:38 PM
  #4  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,819

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2935 Post(s)
Liked 3,030 Times in 1,386 Posts
So the question is whether you should pay an extra $200 for something heavier, less aero, uglier, and don't stop your bike any faster?
caloso is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 12:50 PM
  #5  
LGHT
Senior Member
 
LGHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Irvine
Posts: 1,416

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL3, Nishiki Pro Hybrid SL

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by bdime View Post
I know this has been beaten to death but I'm going to make a purchase and want some input.

I'm buying a Tarmac (after testing the new Roubaix). Either the Expert or Expert Disc.
On a side note why are you going with the Tarmac after testing the new Roubaix?
LGHT is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 12:52 PM
  #6  
bdime
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8

Bikes: Marin LE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jofu View Post
Sorry, no answer to your question... But where did you get bike weight from Specialized? As far as I know, they're purposefully not showing that on their website Or did I completely miss it?


Geoff
You're correct, it's not listed on their website. I called Specialized. The rep said 1/2 to 3/4 lbs difference.
bdime is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 12:59 PM
  #7  
bdime
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8

Bikes: Marin LE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by LGHT View Post
On a side note why are you going with the Tarmac after testing the new Roubaix?
The Roubaix was nice and the front shock thingy didn't bother me at all (I'm 165 lbs). I didn't like the upright position and the thick handlebars. Maybe I liked it b/c is was more like my old road bike. I also tested the 2016 Roubaix. It feels similar to the 2017 model.
bdime is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 01:44 PM
  #8  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18879 Post(s)
Liked 10,638 Times in 6,049 Posts
Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Another consideration is the stigma of disks while riding with an experienced pack. Nothing indicates a newb road rider more than disks.
Haha this is comedy gold!
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 02:17 PM
  #9  
Dave Mayer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,273
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1004 Post(s)
Liked 300 Times in 190 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Haha this is comedy gold!
Thanks! Last weeks group ride was strange: 2 riders with disks show up. 110k with lots of sharp corners and descents. Nobody wants to paceline with the disks, due to the risk of being caught up in an inexperience-induced pileup. So the ride turns into a race to constantly stay ahead of the disks, which substantially increases the pace.

Regardless, one of the disks gets shelled off of the back, and nobody seems motivated to wait. On a no-drop ride. The second disk overcooks a steep descent that leads into stop sign. Rider goes over the bars. So the disks are done 1/4 of the way in..

What about the bigger question here.... why should the OP pay for a bike that can be obtained at roughly a 25% discount in a lesser-known brand such as Fuji or Garneau or one of the mail-order house brands? For roughly the same bike... You'd get another 25% discount by buying the carbon frame direct from Asia, and building up with a component kit from the UK...
Dave Mayer is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 02:19 PM
  #10  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18879 Post(s)
Liked 10,638 Times in 6,049 Posts
So you're telling us people shouldn't benefit from all of the many advantages of disc brakes because your club doesn't know what "no drop" means. Better than Seinfeld, I tell you!
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 02:32 PM
  #11  
Symtex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Back to Rim vs Disc again...

Disc brake are the future. They offer the same breaking ability under any weather condition and they are not more dangerous than rim brakes. The UCI is working with manufacturer to dull out/round out the disc edges. In 5 years, you will be ancient dinosaur if you ride with rim break.
Symtex is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 02:42 PM
  #12  
bdime
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8

Bikes: Marin LE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Symtex View Post
Back to Rim vs Disc again...

Disc brake are the future. They offer the same breaking ability under any weather condition and they are not more dangerous than rim brakes. The UCI is working with manufacturer to dull out/round out the disc edges. In 5 years, you will be ancient dinosaur if you ride with rim break.
I agree it is the future. My situation may be different than the other riders in this forum. Being an "ancient dinosaur" or a "newb road rider" doesn't bother me. I'm more concerned about the shift levers (ultegra vs. ST-RS685), the weight, the ability to repair or tweak the discs and of course the ability to stop.

I liked the ability to stop with just one finger on the brake / in the drops but did I feel I could not any faster...no. Seems the rims were fine even on the downhills. Keep in mind im not riding in a mountainous area.
bdime is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 02:50 PM
  #13  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,819

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2935 Post(s)
Liked 3,030 Times in 1,386 Posts
I can lock up both wheels with two fingers on my Ultegra rim brake equipped Tarmac. Discs don't make your tires grippier.
caloso is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 03:12 PM
  #14  
Dave Mayer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,273
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1004 Post(s)
Liked 300 Times in 190 Posts
Originally Posted by bdime View Post
Keep in mind im not riding in a mountainous area.
There you go. You should not want the extra weight, cost and aero penalty of disks.

Further, instead of buying new, you might want to consider buying a used rim-brake based bike from the gullible early adopter types, who felt they absolutely needed disks for dry coffee-shop rides. Much of this 'need' for disks emanates from newb riders, who are likely recent mountain-bike converts. Hence the misguided desire for disks, and other irrelevant and inappropriate features such as sloping top tubes, long head tubes, and suspension features in the frame or post.

BTW: if you can forgo the life-altering advantages of '11-speeds' (sarcasm), you'll save buckets of money, as 10-speed gear has the same functionality, at a fraction of the price. 3 year old bikes sell at a big discount, particularly the high-end stuff, as dentists and other weekend warriors regularly shed their 'obsolete' gear.
Dave Mayer is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 03:15 PM
  #15  
TeeCeeW
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a Roubaix Pro Disc Race 2015 and a Pinarello F8 with rim brakes. I am not a fan of the rim brakes after riding the Roubaix. If I had it to do over I would have gotten discs. The difference is night and day for me. New tech takes time to gain a foothold but it will be on everything soon.
TeeCeeW is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 03:15 PM
  #16  
LGHT
Senior Member
 
LGHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Irvine
Posts: 1,416

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL3, Nishiki Pro Hybrid SL

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
BTW: if you can forgo the life-altering advantages of '11-speeds' (sarcasm), you'll save buckets of money, as 10-speed gear has the same functionality, at a fraction of the price. 3 year old bikes sell at a big discount, particularly the high-end stuff, as dentists and other weekend warriors regularly shed their 'obsolete' gear.
Not a dentist, but I agree as I have my 2012 Tarmac with upgraded wheels, seat and look pedals up for sale after getting a new Roubiax (not 2017). I know I'm going to take a huge hit on the sale, but the market dictates it's sales price not me
LGHT is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 03:24 PM
  #17  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18879 Post(s)
Liked 10,638 Times in 6,049 Posts
I'll have a pair of Enve disc-brake road wheels soon. They're not available for dino-brakes. The rim is designed for aerodynamics, weight and impact resistance, not heat dissipation and to resist clamping force.

Plus when the braking surface wears out I'll be able to replace it for $50 instead of $900.

There's just no looking back.

Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 03:37 PM
  #18  
Pendergast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,039
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I'll have a pair of Enve disc-brake road wheels soon. They're not available for dino-brakes. The rim is designed for aerodynamics, weight and impact resistance, not heat dissipation and to resist clamping force.

Plus when the braking surface wears out I'll be able to replace it for $50 instead of $900.
+1

I like the feel of disc brakes. I'm not likely to have carbon wheels, but disc brakes make even more sense for people who are interested in carbon wheels.
Pendergast is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 03:42 PM
  #19  
LGHT
Senior Member
 
LGHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Irvine
Posts: 1,416

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL3, Nishiki Pro Hybrid SL

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I'll have a pair of Enve disc-brake road wheels soon. They're not available for dino-brakes. The rim is designed for aerodynamics, weight and impact resistance, not heat dissipation and to resist clamping force.

Plus when the braking surface wears out I'll be able to replace it for $50 instead of $900.

There's just no looking back.

=
Wow now that's the only reason I would consider disk brakes!!
LGHT is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 03:50 PM
  #20  
RushFan2112
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: East Bay CA
Posts: 192

Bikes: 2016 Cannondale Synapse Carbon Disc Di2, Cannondale F1000 SL

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post
+1

I like the feel of disc brakes. I'm not likely to have carbon wheels, but disc brakes make even more sense for people who are interested in carbon wheels.
Totally agree. I thought the whole disc brake thing was nonsense until I actually tried them. Not only will discs stop you faster under any conditions, but the increased modulation is something you don't fully appreciate until you experience it.

I live in a fairly mountainous area and it's nice to know that I can stop quickly when bombing down the side of a mountain at 50 mph. The wet weather stopping isn't a consideration since we're about 5 years into a drought, but power and modulation trumps all.

I have a set of Reynolds Aero 46 discs and they are simply fantastic.
RushFan2112 is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 03:56 PM
  #21  
Symtex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Disc brake is the savior of chinese carbon clinchers !
Symtex is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 03:57 PM
  #22  
birru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 147

Bikes: 1990 Specialized Hardrock Sport, 2007 Pinarello Galileo 105, 2014 Raleigh Cadent 2, 2017 Jamis Renegade Expert

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I see nobody has mentioned perhaps the most important factor of all: The disc version comes in cooler colors. The "satin ink" colorway looks mean.
birru is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 04:48 PM
  #23  
GeneO 
Senior Member
 
GeneO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,520

Bikes: 2018 Roubaix Expert Di2, 2016 Diverge Expert X1

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 479 Post(s)
Liked 143 Times in 98 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
So the question is whether you should pay an extra $200 for something heavier, less aero, uglier, and don't stop your bike any faster?

The expert disc satin ink looks very nice. Don't care for the color schemes of the expert


Doh. birru beat me to it.
GeneO is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 04:49 PM
  #24  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18879 Post(s)
Liked 10,638 Times in 6,049 Posts
Originally Posted by RushFan2112 View Post
I live in a fairly mountainous area and it's nice to know that I can stop quickly when bombing down the side of a mountain at 50 mph. The wet weather stopping isn't a consideration since we're about 5 years into a drought, but power and modulation trumps all.
Hope you get some kind of drought relief without us having to mail you water.

Living in Seattle, I can confirm that they're much, much better in the rain, too.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 09-19-16, 05:03 PM
  #25  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18879 Post(s)
Liked 10,638 Times in 6,049 Posts
A lot of wheels use the same rim for disc or rim brakes. I like that some disc wheels don't, that some rims are for one or the other but not both. Like those Enves. They're shaped to cut through the air, not to fit brake pads. The rims themselves are lighter because they're not a braking surface - the weight is moved in, toward the hubs, where the rotational penalty is cheaper.
Seattle Forrest is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.