Noisy Wheel Set - Click, Click, Click!
 

I need opinions on a recent repair from an LBS. I had my rear rim fail on a ride a few weeks back. The Mavic MA-40 wheel set was at least 10 -15 years old, rock solid, and quiet as a mouse (an important fact here to remember later). The rear wheel was not true and I attempted to adjust the spokes, but probably over-tightened some of them, resulting in a spoke pulling through the rim on a very rough descent.

Since my bike is an early 90's Cannondale that I bought new, the rear hub is 126mm. With pre-built wheels non-available for this size, a rebuild was my only option. I took both wheels to a LBS (didn't want to look at a mismatched wheel set for years since I tend to hang-on to things for a while! - see year of bike) and had DT Swiss RR511 rims built, as one of the suggestions from the LBS, with new spokes. Somewhat of a splurge, but I love my ride. Given my age and riding habits, I wasn't going for light weight, aero, etc with this rebuild but wanted something solid that would last like the MA40s. I got the wheels back (which looked nice), but noticed that I kept hearing slight popping / clicking sounds coming from the wheels on the first ride. I could get off the pick either wheel up, spin them but had no sounds. With the wheels weight loaded, the clicking would re-occur. Since I took only the hubs to the LBS, I concluded that the wheels could not be properly weight-loaded during the build so gave the wheels a few more rides to see if they would "settle" in. Alas, no success and I took the entire bike back to the LBS to see if some of the spokes were not tensioned evenly and thus produced the noise, aka a loose spoke here or there. The LBS called back and said that the spokes were fine but thought the bearings were producing the noise and suggested to have the original hubs re-worked. I was a little skeptical given the timing that the "bearings" decided to act up but since it had been a long time since the hubs had been gone over, I agreed. I got a call back that the hub/races/bearings were all good (much to my relief) and they only had to re-grease the hubs. They indicated that this stopped the clicking sound.

I took the bike out that next weekend and the clicking immediately started upon exiting the driveway and hitting the aggregate road surface. I noticed that the clicking would lessen on smooth pavement, but got worse on rougher road surfaces. In addition, turning the bike would also cause an increase in the popping, regardless of the road surface.

So, my questions are:

1. Does anyone have experience with DT Swiss RR511s? It's not a box style rim like the MA40s so I am wondering if there is any flex in the rims that are causing the sound.
2. Could the noise be resulting from any other source?
3. Suggestions on the next step with the LBS?

Thanks in advance for the feedback!

Hard to diagnose without hearing it,but here are some questions to try to narrow it down:

Is the clicking coming from both wheels or just one?
Is it cyclic with the rotation of the wheels, I.e. does it happen at the same point in the wheels rotation?
Have you checked The clearance between the rim and brake pads?
Are the new wheels true? Do they wobble or hop?
Does it happen when you're pedaling and when you're coasting.

The fact that it decreases as you turn indicates wleel flex is playing some part in the process. You might take the whole bike to another shop for a scond opinion.

Good luck.

Put a bit of lube at the spoke intersection points. (Where they cross.) Some wheels creak where the spokes cross, nothing you can really do about it except use different spokes.

How much do you weigh?

10SpB:
1. Clicking comes from both wheels, but worse in the back.
2. No real rhythm to the clicking. It's rather random.
3. Brake pads are clear of the rims.
4. The wheels are true.
5. Happens while coasting and pedaling. I'll have to check to see if it's worse when pedaling to see if the torque causes flex, aka clicking.

Corrado33:
1. Lube is not a bad idea. If the spokes were moving due to wheel flex, lube would prove that point if it quieted down.
2. A "svelte" 170. I hope it's not my weight!

Thanks for the feedback! The 2nd opinion would be valuable.

I once had a maddening click on a Mavic wheel, although it was only the rear. I had two LBS look at it and what finally did the trick was when we flooded each nipple with lube. We also lubed the point where a couple spokes were overlapping and touching slightly under load (I'm about 190 lbs).

As a side note I was hit by a car a few weeks later which destroyed the bike and wheels, so I never did determine if the fix was permanent. FWIW the wheels on my new bike are Reynolds Aero 46 and they don't make any noise at all.

Good luck. Tracking down creaks, clicks. groans and pops can be maddening.

I have a RR511 on the rear of my road bike (have maybe 1,000 miles on it) and unless you have a defective one I doubt it's the problem. That's a pretty stiff, stout rim even under my XXXL Clydesdale self.

Are you absolutely positive the noise is coming from the wheels? Does it continue when you stop pedaling and coast? Have you purchased new pedals recently? Could it be that....the bearings in the pedals need to be greased?

I'm really interested in this question (and people's answers), as I have a similar issue (new hand-built rear wheel, goes away when I change the wheel out -- I have 2 wheel-sets, no obvious out of round/true issue, random, seems to only happen when I am pedaling).

Road a century a few weeks ago, hard rain in the morning, occasional click per pedal stroke in the afternoon. A little grease on the drive side rear crossed spokes silenced it.

Sounds like spoke noise, galling between spokes. My new wheel did this for awhile back in the spring. Didn't surprise me, these were heavier gauge stainless spokes, very tight fitting. After a couplafew weeks it stopped.

New Observation: While annoyed by the noise, I still rode it on a 20 miler. I noticed that toward the end of the ride, the frequency of noise was reduced, but not gone. At the start, the wheels were clicking away.

I did speak with a cycling mechanic guru and before I could finish my story, he said "spoke prep". He uses a lube where the spokes cross. He said what he used would dry but still lube the spokes. So, I am going to check the LBSs and give this a try. Will let everyone know:

Poda: Thanks for the feedback on the RR511. It is nice to be able to eliminate that has a possibility.

Trueblood:
1. I'm pretty sure that the noise is coming from the wheels. It sounds as though it is in front and behind me. My compadres have ridden beside me and said the same thing.
2. The noise does decrease when I coast but does not go away completely. Rough roads will aggravate the frequency of the sounds. Pedaling will do the same, especially in the rear wheel. I would assume applying torque to the rear wheel is causing that.
3. Nothing else on the bike has changed. I doubt it would be the pedals. I would consider it highly coincidental that the pedals would start making noise immediately after the wheels were just rebuilt.

Thanks for the feedback!

My then-new wheel did exactly the same thing for around 2-3 weeks back in the spring. More ticking and pinging sounds while mashing, climbing hills, etc., fewer when coasting or not pedaling hard. Just the spokes wearing in. No noises since everything settled. I didn't even bother with lubing the spokes.

Sorry for the delay, but had some house repairs to do. I dug around in the garage and found some Finish Line, Teflon Fortified Bicycle Lubricant. The stuff sprays on wet but dries to avoid collecting dirt/grit. I sprayed in on the contact point of spokes crossings & took it for a ride. While I thought it (or hoped) it quieted the wheels, it wasn't enough to scream "Eureka". Anyway, continued on my ride, and noted again that the wheels quieted down after several miles. Like Canklecat noted, any time late in the ride when I was mashing gears, riding out of the saddle going up hill, the wheels would start chirping like crickets. But coasting or gentle pedaling, and rarely would I hear anything. So at this point, I am going to put a few more rides/miles on the wheel set. If it continues, I think I'll open up the bearings and check the grease job the LBS did. (And will probably pack it with a good grease while they are opened up.) Thanks for the help and will report back!

Back again. Well, I rode the bike several times with no change and thus decided to tear down the hubs and repack the grease to eliminate this potential cause. The grease used in the hub rebuild by the LBS was very light-weight, gray grease that was being squeezed out between the cone nuts and the dustcaps. I repacked the back wheel with Phil Wood and new bearings. (The front cones were showing slight wear so I'm looking for replacements at the moment.) Same result with the clicking noise. I'm convinced it is the spokes creaking as the flex rolls with the additional forces of torque, turning, etc being applied. While the wheel is true, I'm thinking of taking the wheel and doing a quarter turn or so on each spoke to tighten them evenly to see if this eliminates the noise. Any thoughts? If I'm tightening each spoke the same amount, won't the wheel stay true?

The wheels might stay true, if you turn each nipple exactly the same amount, and they're all at exactly the same tension when you begin. If you introduce a little runout, though, you can resolve it while you have the spoke wrench in hand. It might be a good idea to add a little lube to the nipples, where they penetrate the rim, and the spoke heads, where they penetrate the hubs, too. Wheels are machines, and they have moving parts. Moving parts almost always work better with a little lube.

Do you have any way to check spoke tension, so you don't over tighten the spokes? It might be a good idea to beg, borrow, or steal a spoke tension gauge, just to be sure. Well, maybe not steal.

I can hardly wait for the next report...:popcorn

Well the next report is now in and we have a resolution. First, sorry for the delay but life's been busy. Before I took the risk of adjusting the tension on the spokes, I decided to grease the spoke nipples as where they protrude through the rim. Of course, I did the ghetto version and just smeared/crammed grease around the edge of the nipple, but this was to prove a point. I wasn't prepared to tear the tire and tube off. I greased the front wheel and the noise seemed better, but still had the clicking noise. Life got in the way before I could grease the rear wheel. I got that done today and took the bike out.....QUIET as a mouse.

So the question is: when wheels are built, should the nipples be prepped/greased before installation? Aka, did LBS mess up?

Thanks for all the input!

Sounds like the spokes are binding. Whoever built the wheel may have just installed the spokes and twisted your nipples.

When I build a wheel I place a tape or black marker dot on the spokes so I can tell if the spokes are twisting with the nipples. IF so, that could be the source of your problem.

Happened to me before I started building my own. I had to loosen every spoke and re tighten making sure the spokes did not bind.

After that, I figured I couldn't do any worse than the guy I payed $100 for labor to build my wheel.

Yes. nipples work well with a little spoke prep as lube or linseed oil (old trick). Helps them screw into place. Then dries into a bonding agent later.

Some guys build wheels with a special tool that holds the spoke ensuring it does not bind while lower skilled builders just twist away.

I've had perfectly fine wheel get worked on during the free 30 day tune up only to get the clicking. Dude just twisted nipples without paying attention to the binding.

Hmmm... I hadn't thought about wind-up of round spokes. My latest builds/rebuilds have been with oval and bladed spokes. What a hassle, but I found that I can pretty much build the wheel, then deal with wind-up.

As far as clicking, I've had it from time to time. Assuming that everything else is fine (hubs&bearings good, tension fine), then it usually will get better after a few hundred miles.

All signs of a poor wheel build.

If I had that wheelset, I would disassemble and totally rebuild it. I'd de-bur all the nipple seats then grease the nipple seats and anti-seize the spoke threads. At your weight and the stiffness of that wheel, a binding spoke prep is totally unnecessary.

Since you can't do that, I'd either live with it or take it to a pro to be rebuilt when I had the time.

First thing I thought of when I read the OP. But I wasn't a member when this thread was started.

The other thing the OP might want to check is make sure the cassette lockring it torqued properly.

I was once fooled by thinking rear wheel click when it fact is was the rear lock ring had worked loose. It only presented itself after I repaired a rear flat. Started clicking.

But if both wheels tick, I'm betting poor build, spoke binding.

But check the rear lock ring anyway. :thumb:

OP, Try one, or all of these,

"The Art of Wheelbuilding", Gerd Schraner
https://www.amazon.com/Art-Wheelbuil...S7K3ZPYN8GHFEP

"Master Wheelbuilding" Bill Mould
https://www.amazon.com/Master-Wheelb...KWK2N7VJ8H8VGM

"The Bicycle Wheel" Jobst Brandt
https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Wheel...SKRNRSVD3BV6NX

I know I'm a little late to respond to the first post in this thread, but wanted to point out that new, pre-built 126 mm wheels are available. Selection's pretty limited, but you can find 'em from Velomine and a few other sources.

Sun M13-II Wheelset, 700c, 36h, 126mm, 5/6/7 speed freewheel