linberl

Why not just ask them how much labor would be if you supplied the parts? And then order them yourself. That way, your LBS gets some financial support and you save some bucks. I've taken parts into shops before had paid for install - they charge their usual hourly rate. Of course, they don't guarantee the items so if there is a problem later on, repairs and adjustments are not free. I usually just tell them I swapped parts with a friend rather than rub the internet cost in their face (usually when the price is so different there isn't any point in asking for a match).

unterhausen

you really expect them to tell every customer that they have competitors that will under-price them? That's not a reasonable expectation in my estimation. I'm not sure why they seem to be pricing the parts above MSRP, although I think Shimano is trimming margins, and the shop is probably quoting normal retail margins. The online shops are not in the U.S. because they couldn't price the way they do and get the parts through legitimate channels here. I think that MSRP is fair market value, and the U.K. shops are exploiting a flaw in the system. The truth is that the normal retail margins are what it takes to keep a brick and mortar shop in business. If you had pricing visibility into what the online shops are paying, their margins are exactly the same as the LBS. Or maybe even more.

I know there are bike mechanics that order from online shops because it is cheaper than what they get from pro discounts. That is what is ridiculous in this whole scheme, not the bike shop selling for a reasonable markup over what they get from the manufacturer.

ThermionicScott 

I do miss strolling into tobacco shops and smelling the aroma and seeing all the jars, though. Receiving a tin of whatever you want in a box at home is really neat, but it's not the same.

kevindsingleton 

OEM means "original equipment manufacturer", not "cheaper than LBS". The bike shop should be able to get the products at wholesale, or even slightly above wholesale. When I buy from Amazon, or Ribble, or any other online retailer, I'm paying ...retail. Retail prices should be higher than wholesale, in a sane universe.

I think the souring of the relationship happened when the LBS tried to overcharge a customer by several orders of magnitude! I like my local bike shops, but I'm not married to them, and I wouldn't tolerate shenanigans like what the OP reported, either. It's a shakedown, and customers (we are customers, after all) have no obligation to support such a racket.

kevindsingleton 

I don't think we should have to lie about where we got the parts in order to keep the LBS from throwing a tantrum. It's almost as if we're ashamed to have paid less than the boutique prices they're expecting.

Is everyone really that intimidated by the bike store? Why are we walking on eggshells, when some bike shops are charging hundreds more than the parts are actually worth?

MRT2

No, you don't owe the LBS an explanation where you got the parts. They already know. It is a sensitive subject for bike store owners. Now, I will say, you are less likely to see long faces at your LBS if you do your research, buy your parts, then go to the shop and ask them to install it, then if you go to the shop, spend time with them, have them give you a quote including parts numbers, telling them you will think about it, then having you come back a week or two later with all the parts from an overseas vendor.

And my understanding is, the overseas internet sellers are taking advantage of a loophole in the system where they place huge orders for components as if they were OEMs, which they are not, then selling the gear for below wholesale. If Shimano and other component manufacturers cared about the LBS, they would close off this loophole by cutting off these dumpers. But they don't, so we have the current situation.

linberl

You might look at it that way. I, however, look at it as maintaining a positive relationship with someone who is wrenching on my bike. I don't want someone who is irritated or pissed off working on my bike; I want someone who cares about me and my bike and values our relationship. I don't think that would be the case if I went in and said "hey, i got a bunch of parts way cheaper than you wanted to stiff me and now i need you to put them on". If you've ever worked in a service industry, you know that being nice makes a difference.

nycphotography

First off... the best way to make this work smoothly is to simply have a reasonable reason why you already have the parts, one that conveniently excludes the purchase and inserts some other context instead.

"So I have a crank and cassette that I was going to use on my (insert alternate bike here) but ended up never following through. How much would you charge to just put them on my (bike at hand) for me instead?"

"My buddy owed me some money he never seems to have, but he always sees to have bike parts go figure haha... so anyhow, I got this crank and cassette.... bla bla bla"


See? All the panty-twisting, shaming, guilting, and awkwardness just went away... so a simple business transaction can be discussed simply... without all the unwanted BEE ESS.

Really where you got the parts isn't their business, so why even put that into play?

nycphotography

Um because some people are grown ups and have learned tact and consideration for other people's feelings and to conduct themselves with grace and elegance?

SquidPuppet

Curious.....what are they charging for labor?

ckarr

I would switch to another bike shop if a LBS tried to rip me off that much. It is like getting mugged. Why would you give a damn about the bike store owner after that? There is no need to maintain any "friendly" relationship just in case they try to F with your bike the next time you bring it in. Burn the bridge and go to another LBS.

JonathanGennick 

And I wish more sellers were doing the same thing, but on this side of the pond. High-volume purchases have always been an opportunity to drive down prices. Jenson does a little bit of OEM buying. Just search their site on "OE" for all sorts of good pricing that I'm beyond happy to have available to me.

Maybe Shimano could extend close-to-oem pricing to individual shops.

silex

Final quote was like $160 for labor including changing brake and shift cables and a new headset.

digibud

I am now in the habit of simply being upfront and telling any LBS that I want to support them and if they can get me PartX for 10% over this quote from the net (with shipping) I'd love to order from them. If not, I'll order online and then we'll get started. I did this with a complete Ultegra group I put on my warranty replacement frame. The LBS couldn't come close to the cost so I paid for their time and bought the group. They were fine with that.

kevindsingleton 

Yes, that would be doubleplus uncool. If it's true that the online retailers are making these huge purchases to get the quantity discounts, why don't bike shops do the same, or, better yet, refuse to purchase from Shimano, et al, until the problem is resolved? I guess it's similar to the Walmart dilemma: Do we want lower prices, or do we want to save small, local businesses? Bike shops can't compete with each other, and with online retailers. Maybe they should organize? Pool their resources, purchasing power, and influence.

It really is a shame that we now have so many really incredible bikes and components, but such a horrible distribution system. That internet thing is ruining the world!

fietsbob

Remember when your wages stay flat for 30 years , that the same cost cutting drive, to pay less, applies to You too ..

SquidPuppet

I have a similar arrangement/relationship with the owner of my favorite LBS. I bring in a slip of paper with a list of items, (usually a significant potential order) not individually priced, just a total dollar amount at the bottom along with my phone number. I tell him that I'd prefer to buy from him and ask him to see if he can match the total. A ask him to take whatever time he needs to tweak his numbers and give me a call. This allows him to massage his mark up where he can on certain items vs other items. He seems happy with the chance to compete and we have made deals on everything except spokes.

kevindsingleton 

Charging hundreds of dollars more than retail for parts isn't an indication that the bike shop cares about me. It's not "being nice", either. It's racketeering. It's abuse. "Thank you, sir! May I have another!"

I've worked in the service industry for most of my adult life. I know the difference between being nice and taking advantage. Being nice is the shop that tells you to get the parts, online, and they'll install them, because they can't offer them at a reasonable price, by comparison.

I suppose it's all relative, and those who have enough disposable income that price isn't really a factor don't see the situation the same as those who live a little more modestly. We're probably approaching the tipping point, after which we'll have a several Performance Bike-style chains, and very few independent shops remaining.

kevindsingleton 

Lying = grace? Feelings, in business?

I guess I see where things went wrong, then.

kevindsingleton 

I agree. If they'll steal your money, do you really want them working on your bike? How do you trust that they did anything the said they'd do, or do it, properly? Why do we have to take the risk, as customers, AND pay extra for the privilege?

ShortLegCyclist

Not all brick and mortar bike shops do this and some do leverage volume purchasing and OEM part purchasing, it's just not mom and pop bike shops that can do this.

Universal Cycles and Western Bike Works in Portland are two examples, for some items (not all) they can meet or beat any internet price, but they are large outfits with multiple brick and mortar outlets (in multiple states in the case of Universal).

There is no Seattle bike shop that can compete cost wise with either of the Portland bike giants, especially since Oregon has no state sales tax and tons of Seattle cyclists make the trip down to buy higher priced items to avoid the 9.5% sales tax in Washington.

Performance Bike is similar but even larger, and they are the same corporate entity as Nashbar and Supergo.

If you buy a crankset, for instance, from a vendor in China, or even CRC, Ribble or Fatbirds, and you have a defect or a wrong item sent, you are looking at significant delays at the least to get the situation corrected, so buying the object in person has an advantage there.

Likewise buying in person lets you actually feel just how heavy or light a component, frame, wheelset, etc., is and how well gloves or jackets or tights fit you. Stocking inventory carries a cost and I'm willing to pay for that for items like that.

OTOH I buy tires, tire levers, lights, bells, etc. online all the time.

Pauley L

You apparently missed his very valid point.

The large internet outfits are able to purchase at OEM prices. OEM prices are significantly below wholesale prices and allow the large online shops to oftentimes sell components at prices that are at, or very close to, the wholesale price that the LBS has to pay.

Savvy shoppers can also beat US "large online shop" pricing on many items by ordering some stuff from overseas.

Example:

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...6&category=196 ($73 + shipping)

Schwalbe Rocket Ron 2015 / 2014 / 2016 ($43.57 + shipping)

kevindsingleton 

Thanks, Pauley.

I didn't miss that, actually, and it doesn't explain the hundreds of dollars' difference reported in the OP. That's why I questioned the situation.

linberl

Without knowing the reasoning for the pricing, you should not assume it is "racketeering". Maybe the lbs pays their employees a living wage with benefits and a retirement fund (mine does!). This cost is passed along in the purchase prices. Online retailers likely pay low wages with minimal benefits. Maybe the shop has very high rent. Maybe the shop doesn't have a business relationship with that vendor and there is a minimum order to meet. It's even possible they made a mistake looking up the prices!

It's not as simple as you make it out to be. And it is possible to nicely ask if they can match a price and see what they say. Then, if the price is still too much for you, just bring the items in and pay labor.

Sure, if there are other bike shops near you you can try another one. But not everyone has access to lots of good bike shops. Whatever works for you, though.

smarkinson

Here's an interesting article about pricing.

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/all-o...onent-pricing/

I got some components from the UK yesterday. Chain and shifters were in plastic bags so probably OEM parts while derailleurs and cassette were in retail packaging. Prices were half what I would pay at an LBS (or even a local online seller) plus I saved on labor costs by installing myself.