jefnvk

I have no idea what that means.

Cyclist0108

Precisely.

(It was a somewhat famous example Noam Chomsky used to illustrate that a sentence can be meaningless but can still be grammatically correct.)

jefnvk

Well, if you believe that dogs should get to use the MUP off a leash and I am responsible for anything other than not hitting them, we simply are not in agreement, nor do I think we will be. My job is not to operate my bike in a way that your dog likes, it is to operate it in a safe manner. If a dog is easily startled by bikes, the MUP is not a place for them.

Lucillle

I totally agree and what a sensible approach.

These dogs should not be there if they have special needs/anxieties. It is the dog owner, not the cyclist, that has put them in harm's way if she knows of their special needs and takes them to a place where it is expected that bicyclists will be present, when she could have chosen a dog park or similar.

bulldog1935

stupid dog owners raise stupid dogs

Wilfred Laurier

I try not to make assumptions based on a story told by one angry side of the situation, but I have my biases and make assumptions.

Assumption one: A lady who complains about the effect others have on her dog's nerves (a) is middle aged or above, (b) has small dogs.
Assumption two: Small dogs (see assumption one) (a) are far more likely to be badly trained or out of control, (b) are much less likely to have an owner who takes responsibility for their dog, or who intervenes or tries to improve the dog's behavior (why bother training them to heel when they are so easy to pull to my side with a leash? They're so small so a bite isn't serious!)

I have seen plenty of irresponsible cyclist behavior as well, but nothing in the OP triggers my biases or assumptions.

Verdict: Woman is guilty
Sentence: $0.25 fine, or failing to pay the fine, Death by Hanging.

Cyclist0108

I think you might be confusing what I actually wrote with what you think I wrote.

The person who imparts the greater momentum (mass times velocity) is more likely to win a collision, and has less reaction time to avoid a collision, has the greater responsibility. Also, since your reasoning powers might be greater than those of the dog and probably its owner, you also have some additional responsibility. Similarly, someone in a pickup truck has a responsibility not to hit you even if you are violating the law by riding two abreast or something like that. Anything else you are trying to read into what I wrote is flawed logic or misunderstanding, or both. Basic decency suggests you should give even more of a break to children, animals, and incapacitated adults. Most people would agree that even perfectly able-bodied adults of sound mind should be able to go for a stroll on an MUP without being put into harm's way by a cyclist asserting his "right" to a Strava KOM.

Cyclist0108

How about autistic or mentally challenged people? Presumably on the same logic, they too ought to be banned from using an MUP.

Dave Cutter

I edited the post to what looks like the relevant information. It appears to me that the female dog owner is attracted to the cyclist... but is frustrated because he rides by too fast. She wants him to stop... or at least slow down enough she can greet the guy.

Lucillle

I do not recall saying anything about banning all dogs, I addressed a particular issue with dogs that the owner said had physical/anxiety issues.
Unlike dogs brought by an owner and placed exactly in a situation that the owner says upsets them, people can move away from those situations.

GravelMN

+10

Cyclist0108

I get anxious when people in pickup trucks or SUVs drive up fast behind me, honking their horn, and diesel-smoke me and try to run me into a ditch. Because of these anxiety issues I suffer from, should I be banned from riding my bicycle on the road?

Retro Grouch 

Golden Rule, baby, this isn't that complicated.

Trucks, bikes, pedestrians, dogs. Just treat others the way you'd like to be treated. Almost everybody does that because it's the natural law. Unfortunately we tend to pay more attention to the small minority who don't.

If you think that the percentage of people around you who are jerks is too big, you should probably examine your own practices. They might be reflecting your own attitude back at you.

Wilfred Laurier

Depends. Do you react badly to just the aggressive drivers, or all drivers? If all drivers, not banned, but you should probably tear up your bicycle license as you aren't doing anyone any favours by being a nervous road user.

jefnvk

And this article is about dogs with issues being startled by bikes on a MUP. It is not my job to try to understand every pet on a MUP, and change my riding to they aren't startled or avoid anxiety or to alleviate their issues. If they have issues being around bikes, it is the owners responsibility to keep them away from bikes.

Yes, I have a responsibility to ride safely around them. No, I have no responsibility to ride in a particular manner that appeases their anxiety, so long as I am riding safely.

bulldog1935

it's not worth arguing with people whose minds are enjoying their delusion

Cyclist0108

Are we reading the same "article"?

So, assuming that we can take this report at face value, (1) the cyclist is being purposefully aggressive, by riding as close to them as he can and then honking his horn right as he passes, (2) she is commenting on the condition of her dogs, but a perfectly normal dog would also probably respond poorly to this sort of treatment, so her point about the dog having poor eyesight really isn't the issue, and (3) all things considered, her request seems exceptionally mild-mannered.

That seems quite different from the "article" you are describing. (We don't know the other side of the story, and she could be making it up or greatly exaggerating it. We simply have no idea.)

Fair enough, but I very much doubt you are the type of cyclist who would be purposefully aggressive, by riding as close to someone's dogs as you can, and then honking your horn right as you pass them. So you would never be put in the position of having the job of understanding their response to this sort of thing.

(If I had to guess, and my guess is only that, the reality is the person is allowing the dogs to run all over the path on leash, so that no one can ride by, and this guy is being aggressive by charging through and honking at them, which makes both him and her jerks, and the dogs comparatively innocent victims of both sets of behaviors.)

Svenicus

Anytime I ride, I always keep an eye out for two particular 'groups' of things I don't want to startle: children and dogs/owners. I always ring my bell well in advance of coming up on them, regardless of whether I'm coming at them or from behind them. I find most tighten up on the leash and move to the side of the trail and are grateful that you gave them the heads up.