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How much Drag in Coaster Brake Hub vs ...

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How much Drag in Coaster Brake Hub vs ...

Old 11-08-16, 10:23 AM
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How much Drag in Coaster Brake Hub vs ...

I hear people say Coaster brake hub has too much drag.
Is this something that you can measure with instrument or something?

I feel the coaster brake hub on my cheapy $300 bike feels pretty darn smooth and low drag when I spin the wheel on the bike. Even with the wheel off, the everything feels pretty smooth when I spin the axle with my fingers.

If you're riding, say in a 100-mile charity ride; do you think switching the cheap coaster brake hub to an expensive Shimano Freehub is worth the trouble?

How much less "work" in terms of Joules do you think a freehub would be?
How much faster in terms of cruising speed do you think it would be?

Last edited by mtb_addict; 11-08-16 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 11-08-16, 12:16 PM
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I doubt anyone has a mechanical engineering lab facilities to give you Data . so All that you will get is Opinions , not numbers.

Put 2 candidates at the top of a hill and time the Roll down..


There is also the Better coaster brake hub from Sturmey Archer Sturmey-Archer | S1C Silver
as wellas the single speed drum brake with no brake drag until you pull the brake lever, Sturmey-Archer | X-RD




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Old 11-08-16, 05:27 PM
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Anything that's not the cheesiest piece of garbage should have no more drag than any other hub, given proper setup. There's a good amount of poo-pooing with regards to KT hubs, but they are not terribly machined, for what they are. Will they last more than a few thousand miles? Probably not, but they work fine in the interim.

Older hubs (Bendix/Morrow, New Departure) are significantly higher quality, but finding parts for out-of-production hubs is not necessarily easy.
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Old 11-10-16, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
I hear people say Coaster brake hub has too much drag.
Is this something that you can measure with instrument or something?
It depends on the bike.

My experience came from three bikes with coaster and roller brakes.

1. Dahon 16 inch folder - Sram Coaster brake -- Lots of drag. Spin the wheel and it will come to a stop in 20 seconds or less.

2. Bianchi Milano = Nexus 7 Roller Brake --- Lots of drag. I eventually sold the bike because a 20 year old hybrid rolled better.

3. Torker - Sturmey Archer 5 speed -- Almost no drag at all. Amazing.

The lesson here is simple. Before buying a coaster brake bike, turn it upside down and spin the rear wheel. If it has drag, think again before buying. I would rather have a hub gear bike without a coaster any day of the week. In fact, none of my other 3 speed bikes without a coaster suffer from drag.
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Old 11-11-16, 11:24 AM
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Do you adjust your Coaster brake in the Hub (Reading the Manual) or Just can't be bothered ?
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Old 11-11-16, 11:33 AM
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I have seen very cheap coaster brake hubs (on kids bikes mainly) that have noticeable drag. But when I have ridden good coaster brake hubs, like Shimano Nexus, I do not notice any additional drag. It is possible that there is a tiny amount of extra drag (<5w) that might make a bit of a difference when riding 100km or climbing in the alps, but on the types of riding coaster hubs were designed for, they do not have significant drag.
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Old 11-11-16, 04:56 PM
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I haven't torn down that many coaster brake hubs. But I can tell they're not all created equal. Nor are they all lubed equally either.
The older, presumably higher quality units have a circlip that pull the brake shoes inwards, out of engagement. These tend to have - at most - a very marginal extra drag compared to other hubs.
But I've also seen a few newer/cheaper hubs w/o that circlip. In these, the brake shoes stay in engagement - but not under pressure - even when coasting, resulting in noticeable drag.
Then there are the lubes. Some of the cheaper hubs have had very sticky lube, almost tar-like.
If you add sticky lube AND the lack of a disengagement mechanism, then you do get something quite obviously draggy.
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Old 03-27-18, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dabac View Post
The older, presumably higher quality units have a circlip that pull the brake shoes inwards, out of engagement. These tend to have - at most - a very marginal extra drag compared to other hubs.
But I've also seen a few newer/cheaper hubs w/o that circlip. In these, the brake shoes stay in engagement - but not under pressure - even when coasting, resulting in noticeable drag.

On the Shimano CB-E-110, I see the clutch cone unit (#9) has a spring inside. Its purpose appears to be to push the clutch away to disengage the brake shoes. If one brake shoe is installed on top and other on bottom, then the top brake shoe will fall down and rest on the clutch unit, without any drag. But the other shoe would fall and rest on the housing, which would drag.
In this case...I would hypothesize that the drag would be negligiable relatively to drag on the tire and drivetrain, if the brake is kept properly lubricated with fresh thin grease.

To test this hypothesizes scientifically...on a recent ride, both my buddy and I coasted together down this long overpass. Her 8-spd Cassette Shimano...mine KT coaster brake hub. We were similar weight and size. We started at the top together, and we arrived at the bottom together.
This test showed convincingly the coaster hub brake drag is negliable.

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Old 03-27-18, 02:20 PM
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If your bike has a coaster brake in the rear, it may not be able to be fitted with a rear caliper or disc brake. It's not wise to ride a bike with only a front brake.
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Old 03-27-18, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by VegasTriker View Post
If your bike has a coaster brake in the rear, it may not be able to be fitted with a rear caliper or disc brake. It's not wise to ride a bike with only a front brake.
If it has a coaster brake, it has a rear brake
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Old 03-27-18, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
If it has a coaster brake, it has a rear brake
I mentioned possibly using a freewheel hub...which cannot have coaster brake.
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Old 03-27-18, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
If one brake shoe is installed on top and other on bottom,
That is impossible on the CB-E110.

The only possible way to assemble the hub is with one shoe is at 3:00 and the other at 9:00.

With the shoes positioned on the sides, rather than the top and bottom, they can "float" in between the clutch and the shell.

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Old 03-28-18, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by VegasTriker View Post
If your bike has a coaster brake in the rear, it may not be able to be fitted with a rear caliper or disc brake. It's not wise to ride a bike with only a front brake.
There's nothing wrong with that. It can get sketchy in a turn, but I'd rather have a single front, than rear.

I used to have a friend with a cheap cruiser, that had a front brake, and despite the coaster, it had a side pull back there too.
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Old 03-28-18, 06:13 AM
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The biggest argument against coaster brakes on adult bikes I have is not the drag they have, it's the drag that they don't have--like, when you need to come to a stop very quickly.

These were 3 different cheap generic bikes I rode a bit in the last couple years, not anything with parts that have names you'd recognize--but somehow the coaster brakes on them all worked about as the same. Any other kind of brake setup would be able to stop a lot faster--rim brakes, disk brakes or roller brakes.

Of course with rim, disk or roller brakes, you'd have two brakes--front and rear. Maybe if you put coaster brakes on front and rear they might work okay too I guess....
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Old 03-28-18, 07:24 AM
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Wow! Resurrecting your own thread that died after only three days by quoting a 15 month old post. Talk about lame.


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Old 03-28-18, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug5150 View Post
The biggest argument against coaster brakes on adult bikes I have is not the drag they have, it's the drag that they don't have--like, when you need to come to a stop very quickly.

...Any other kind of brake setup would be able to stop a lot faster--rim brakes, disk brakes or roller brakes.
I think it depends on the type of riding you do. If you ride fast and there're lots of downhill riding, then a coaster only brake system is not good.

Otherwise, coaster brake gets the job done. On slow ride, I believe I can stop better with coaster brake. My reaction time is significantly faster with my foot, than with my hand. Using the foot is more intuitive for humans--we move and stop moving with our feet. Also, most people's hand strength is weak (some even have arthitus). But most people's leg strength is very strong. I just put back pressure on foot and lift my body out of saddle...there's my full body weight of 150 pounds of pressure on the brake...results in instant locking up the rear tire for good braking distance. A typical person's hand is an order of magnitude weaker.

I would add that a coaster brake without a backup front brake, I am very meticulous about the condition of the coaster brake. I visually inspect chain and wheel, before every ride. And I do regular maintenance, that some would consider OCD. Because my main concern is make sure the chain wouldn't come off or snap.

I know people who never check their bikes, and their bikes are in generally bad condition most of the time.
Without a backup brake for these people, would be a bad idea.

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Old 03-28-18, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug5150 View Post
Any other kind of brake setup would be able to stop a lot faster--rim brakes, disk brakes or roller brakes.
Not true..a coaster brake is just as effective at stopping the bike as any rear brake. A front brake (regardless of type) is more effective than any rear brake (regardless of type) at stopping the bike.

A $25 Shimano CB110 is about the best coaster brake you can buy.

I have a couple of Shimano CB110 equipped bikes. One is a single speed offroad klunker and another is sort of a lazy "around town" bike. When broken in and adjusted correctly they roll smoothly, efficiently, have good modulation and are perfectly reliable. Messing around with coaster brake bikes can be a lot of fun. I beat the hell out of the coaster brake on my klunker, and have on many occasions cooked the brake on downhills. I haven't gotten it hot enough to experience brake fade, but definately hot enough to burn my fingers. It seems to hold up fine.
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Old 03-28-18, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
Not true..a coaster brake is just as effective at stopping the bike as any rear brake. A front brake (regardless of type) is more effective than any rear brake (regardless of type) at stopping the bike.

A $25 Shimano CB110 is about the best coaster brake you can buy.

I have a couple of Shimano CB110 equipped bikes. One is a single speed offroad klunker and another is sort of a lazy "around town" bike. When broken in and adjusted correctly they roll smoothly, efficiently, have good modulation and are perfectly reliable. Messing around with coaster brake bikes can be a lot of fun. I beat the hell out of the coaster brake on my klunker, and have on many occasions cooked the brake on downhills. I haven't gotten it hot enough to experience brake fade, but definately hot enough to burn my fingers. It seems to hold up fine.
+1

I have five bikes with CB-E110s. I've converted them to loose ball. They are quiet, smooth, modulate perfectly, and I can lock up the rear with very little effort. That's not to say that locking up a rear brake is an efficient way to stop, because it isn't. But CB-E110s do NOT lack wheel stopping power.

Two of mine are almost twenty years old and have given me zero problems. I don't understand why so many people hate coaster brakes. They work just as well (which is poorly) as any other rear brake.
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Old 03-28-18, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet View Post
+1

I have five bikes with CB-E110s. I've converted them to loose ball. They are quiet, smooth, modulate perfectly, and I can lock up the rear with very little effort. That's not to say that locking up a rear brake is an efficient way to stop, because it isn't. But CB-E110s do NOT lack wheel stopping power.

Two of mine are almost twenty years old and have given me zero problems. I don't understand why so many people hate coaster brakes. They work just as well (which is poorly) as any other rear brake.
++1

I get that they are not at the cutting edge of bike tech. However coaster brakes make the operation of the bike so awesomely simple, I get a kind of euphoria riding one, especially on singletrack.

The only reason I can conceive of for disliking coaster brakes is the need to detach the anti-rotation arm from the frame when removing the rear wheel, which can complicate fixing a flat. Otherwise what's not to like?

https://vimeo.com/51119615
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Old 03-28-18, 12:53 PM
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Mission accomplished!
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Old 03-28-18, 01:13 PM
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The only reason I can conceive of for disliking coaster brakes is the need to detach the anti-rotation arm from the frame when removing the rear wheel, which can complicate fixing a flat.

I Simplified that with the torque arm on my Drum brakes, I have a pin I pull rather than a nut & bolt to loosen..
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Old 03-28-18, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
I Simplified that with the torque arm on my Drum brakes, I have a pin I pull rather than a nut & bolt to loosen..
Good idea. Two less tools to have to carry.

Last edited by mtb_addict; 03-28-18 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 03-28-18, 01:29 PM
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Mail me a Camera..

its a pin with a little spring behind a ball, the ball keeps it from pulling out. there is a ring to grab on the other end, to pull it out by..

I have found them in Industrial Hardware stores .. my current place i'd go to the Marine Supply store in the Port Docklands.


in industry one use is, they are used to lock a machine off and have a warning tag on them,
so no one will turn the machine on and kill the worker that locked it off because they are inside of it. for some reason..


I have some, in other sizes , for my bike trailer.. those a bail goes around from one end to the other
that also keeps them from coming out.




...
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