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-   -   Why aren't frame locks popular in the U.S.? (https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1087579-why-arent-frame-locks-popular-u-s.html)

fietsbob 11-10-16 09:04 AM

Why aren't frame locks popular in the U.S.?
 
Because They are not on the bike when they Buy them.


US Imports its bikes Primarily From factories in Asia, Not Europe..

Though Now TRek has some models made for both the US & EU Market in Asia, They, I see have the Mounting bosses But the Lock is Not included . If they were sending the shipment to Trek Europe via Bremerhaven or Rotterdam, then perhaps the Build specs would include the Lock..

also why us gets bare basic bikes , then sells accessories , Mudguards, Locks, Lights, chainguards, as shown above..

where Europe gets practical bikes which are Fitted out ready to Go. (and race bikes, too)


I bought a NL made Koga , It came with frame fittings for, and included, an Axa SL7 Ring Lock



I replaced it to gain the current Pin connected 1.4M Security Chain , with the current Axa Defender.

The defender Included a secure band connector to attach it to seat stays of bike. that lacked the Riv-nuts/braze ons..

so Could be retro fitted on Other Bikes lacking the Frame fittings..





:innocent:

calamarichris 11-10-16 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 19182262)
I love the AXA frame lock.
Two modes of operation: (1) Fast: Just the frame lock, or (2) Slower, more secure using both frame lock and integrated chain.

Most secured way to lock. Period.

http://media1.roseversand.de/product...1/811255_4.jpg

As to why this is not popular in USA, but it is in Europe and Asia.
We 'Muricans just don't know any better.

I couldn't agree more. Got them on both of my Globes (which happily had the boss mounts for them, so no bands) and we lock them to each other with the cables. Or I just employ the frame lock when ducking into a store.

http://www.calamarichris.com/wp-cont...dang-globe.jpg
http://www.calamarichris.com/wp-cont...7-live3axa.jpg

They're more successful in Europe because the Dutch opafiets, like my old Locomotief Populaire here, are too heavy to simply throw into the back of a truck. (I think the frame "tubes" are actually solid rods, and not hollow.)

http://www.calamarichris.com/wp-cont...comotief-a.jpg

VegasTriker 11-10-16 09:23 AM

I bought one of those disc brake locks quite some time ago and have never used it. It looked reasonable on paper but it is a solid chunk of metal so not very light. I also realized that if anyone moved the rotor or if I forgot to take it off I would instantly damage the caliper and maybe the rotor for a cost of probably $50 (Avid BB7) or worse on my Greenspeed trike which has $$$$ Hope brakes. I suspect most of us don't use frame lock because of the bulk and size. A cable lock may be less secure but I don't lock it in a high crime area or leave it for long. BTW, a thief did just what you describe to an acquaintance's bike when he leaned it against the glass at a coffee shop on the UNLV campus. As soon as he went inside, somebody hopped on it and rode away with his new bike. He never saw it again. Lesson learned.

Philphine 11-10-16 09:23 AM

i like the idea of one of these on a bike I'm building as a gift, but does anyone know if any of these will work/fit around a ballon tire with fender? thanks.

Maelochs 11-10-16 09:28 AM

Re: wheel lock. I agree with Thumpism: if a thief is sufficiently determined, s/he will get your bike.

That said, I prefer to lock my bike To something. if I am in a store, a thief without a car can still throw my bike on his/her shoulder and walk off with it.

I usually use a sturdy enough chain and simple combo lock for serious stops (shopping, library ... anything where I will be 1/2 hour or more.) I carry a very small, light cable lock (five minutes with a serrated steak knife) otherwise, to provide a minute or two of security if I need to buy a Gatorade or visit a rest room.

jefnvk 11-10-16 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by no1mad (Post 19181642)
Simply locking the bike to itself does nothing to prevent someone from simply throwing the bike into the back of a truck or van. The lock can be dealt with later or if it can't be, then all every accessible part removed from the frame.

Yep, that is the big difference between the US and Europe.

I was going to bring one home with me on my last trip from the Netherlands (ABUS can be had as cheap as $15 there, far pricier here), but my card wouldn't work in the shop. Always thought it would be nice for my bar runner, which I'm not too worried about anyone actually stealing to steal, rather more stealing for a joyride.

markjenn 11-10-16 12:05 PM

For the times when I have my bike in sight (e.g., Starbucks), I carry a very lightweight 6' swaged cable (probably cuttable with a good-quality set of cutting pliers) and lightweight padlock. The entire thing fits in a small zip-lock in my seat bag and the long cable means it can be wrapped around most anything.

I have no pretense that it would stop anyone with serious tools who wanted to steal the bike, but it would slow them down enough I'm sure I could confront them and chase them off.

- Mark

Z953 11-10-16 12:33 PM

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winnah!!!



Originally Posted by Darth_Firebolt (Post 19181603)
because they don't work in America. simple.


drlogik 11-10-16 12:49 PM

If somebody wants your bike they are going to get it. The key is to make your bike less of a target than the other guy's bike. If it's alone, locking it to itself isn't going to deter a thief. That goes for Europe to by the way. London has a BAD problem with stolen bikes, so do most big cities.

Carry a decent lock. I use a 10mm ABUS chain with a beefy padlock that is not easily picked. I carry it wrapped around my waist. It's quick (quicker than a U lock - I know, I have a good ABUS U lock to), it's simple, it's effective. Would you rather take an additional 30 seconds to lock the bike "to" something or have to replace it when it is stolen?

indyfabz 11-10-16 01:01 PM

I feel left out. In close to 35 years of riding for sport, transportation and travel as an adult, often leaving my bike unlocked (I did one week-long tour without a lock, and I rarely use my lock when I bring one on tour. I have never locked my bike during a club ride.), no one has ever attempted to steal a bike from me. And I am talking about some nice bikes, including a custom IF, Surly LHT, Colnago Dream Plus, custom BF NWT and a custom Engin ti. The only time I did have a bike stolen from me was when it was inside my house while I was home and awake. Granted, I live in the 5th largest city in the U.S. Maybe that has something to do with my good fortune.

Doug5150 11-10-16 01:36 PM

I've had people online say that the older style of frame locks would get road grit in them from the wheel and get sticky to the point that they wouldn't open or close anymore. I've never had one so I don't know about that first-hand, or if the newer ones are any better in that regard.

Why you don't see them in the US: I think it's at least two different reasons.
One is that the bikes don't come with the fittings for them.
The other is that if the locks are built decent, they probably cost quite a bit of money and so bike companies are loathe to include them as standard equipment.

Reynolds 11-10-16 02:23 PM

For quick stops where I have my bike at sight I carry a 1m cable with combination lock. Light, no key to lose/forget, can be used on other bikes. I carry it in a trunk bag or just coiled on the handlebar.

rmfnla 11-10-16 05:11 PM

For convenience store stops I just take my bike in with me.

Never have had a problem...

Gresp15C 11-10-16 06:44 PM

Those ring locks seem like a nice idea, and I've checked them out from time to time. I'd like to see one that can coexist with caliper brakes, with a combination instead of a key.

One problem in the US is that people don't like kick stands, so bikes have to be leaned against something anyway. Since I've got a kick stand, I just put a cheap cable lock around the rear wheel and seat tube. When I need higher security, then I use a more secure lock.

Dahon.Steve 11-10-16 06:44 PM


Originally Posted by GeneO (Post 19181391)
The disc brake lock - I would think that a thief wouldn't notice it and would trash your bike attempting to steal it.

+1

You don't need a fancy disc brake lock but a simple cable would do the trick. If the thief doesn't see the lock, he'll rip out your spokes trying to make an easy getaway.

Dahon.Steve 11-10-16 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by howardv (Post 19181350)
Neighbor recently had their bike stolen while they were buying water at 7-11. They had leaned their bike against the glass outside and it was gone.

There's a 7-11 that allows me to bring the bike inside. I always leave it right by the entrance so it's much safer than this lock. There are other 7-11 stores that won't allow me to bring the bike inside. Guess which ones I visit the most?

Nachoman 11-11-16 12:56 PM

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/xtCTzegQIn4/hqdefault.jpg
I use one like this. All it does is help keep honest people honest.
You could 'almost' cut the cable with a strong pair of scissors.

Stadjer 11-13-16 06:03 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 19182262)
I love the AXA frame lock.
Two modes of operation: (1) Fast: Just the frame lock, or (2) Slower, more secure using both frame lock and integrated chain.

Most secured way to lock. Period.

http://media1.roseversand.de/product...1/811255_4.jpg

As to why this is not popular in USA, but it is in Europe and Asia.
We 'Muricans just don't know any better.

True, the frame lock or 0-lock or what you call it here in the Netherlands is just called a lock or a bikelock. Everybody has one, together with other locks, insertable cables or not. For a quick visit in a safe area it's the best, takes less than a second to lock.

I have one with integrated chain, and it's a very good chain. But the important thing is to know to what kind of thief to defend. There are thiefs that break the lock on the spot, and there are thiefs who pick up the bike locked and break the lock later. Against the latter, a flimsy cable lock that attaches the bike to a solid object will do, for the thiefs who break the lock before taking the bike an AXA or ASUS frame lock will generally take too much time and noise to break.

Think like a thief and make sure your bike is not the most attractive to steal.

BikeLite 11-13-16 07:36 AM

Consider not puttin any device through spokes only or brake hole. If even the bike falls over you now have significant damage?

Lock Strategy

fietsbob 11-13-16 10:55 AM

ah bystander theories... if you lock your bike up to something solid, it does not fall over + use kickstands ..


1.4M chain reaches around the F wheel, a post or bike rack , then snaps in the lock + the wheel lock .. keeps it from quick theft.


But the real reason is They are leaving things off so the Price tag is Lower.

then the customer pays for accessories at point of sale that they want and are willing to pay for.

Bikes are still Not a part of every day urban Life in the US like Germany & Denmark and NL

there the bikes are shipped loaded with Lights locks mudguards racks ..

I f you want a Race Bike . that is another product line of the Shops.




...

genec 11-13-16 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by ijsbrand (Post 19182098)
Same reason as why bikes do not come with tenders, luggage carriers, or lights pre-installed. The olde bike seen just as sports equipment versus bike as a serious and useful means of daily transport conundrum.

How many bikes come with their chains protected against the weather in a standard encasing?

This is it exactly... the bikes as toys mentality.

While in Finland, I noticed that the majority of bikes on the street and being offered at bike shops had locks, racks, fenders, lights and "skirt protectors" for the back wheels all as standard equipment... the options were: single speed, three speed, or real derailleur.

You could order a Trek or other "American Style" bike, but the bikes in use, and on the shop floor were robust utility bikes.

Robert C 11-13-16 12:13 PM


Originally Posted by fietsbob (Post 19182322)
Because US Imports its bikes Primarily From factories in Asia, Not Europe..

That really has little to do with why US bikes do not have frame locks; however, in China nearly all bikes have frame locks. That being said, the typical bike used in China is not exported to the US. What we consider to be "big-box" grade in the US would be mid grade in China.

When in China it is considered odd that I want to lock my Bicycle to something. Quite frequently there really is nothing suitable to lock to.

genec 11-13-16 12:14 PM


Originally Posted by rmfnla (Post 19183444)
For convenience store stops I just take my bike in with me.

Never have had a problem...

About 30 years ago I would just flip the QR on the front rear wheel and throw the RD shifter all the way down... so the chain would try to go to the smallest cog... Anyone just jumping on the bike would instantly jam it... have to get off, and fix those things before riding off.

Since I knew it was like that, it was just a matter of me remembering to put the QR back and the shifter back before riding... and yeah, I forgot once or twice... and it showed me how it all worked. :o

But I would never do this if the bike was out of sight... this was just enough to stop someone from jumping on and riding off and had to be "enforced" by my quick response.

fietsbob 11-13-16 02:31 PM

The Asian factories do as their Importer customers want , so the real answer Lies with the US bike companys ,

Really want to Know ?

and not just go passive & ask this forum who are all spectators in the bleachers , not players in the Industry.

Or, how many here are Product Managers for a Large US Bike company?
Do speak up and say so.

Ask each of them one By One [Interbike has a Paid admission day at the Industry Trade Show for the general Public, Now]


But any how thanks for the amusement :popcorn its not even Winter Yet




...

RockstarBruski 11-13-16 11:46 PM

Interesting idea for frame lock. I guess I would use that if I didn't have my normal lock on me which is a brinks 15' cable that I bought on amazon at
https://www.amazon.com/Brinks-165-38...ave+Loop+Cable
and this heavier duty setable Masterlock at
https://www.amazon.com/MasterLock-11...nation+padlock

I weave the cable through the entire bike, seat, wheels, frame, etc.
I also have a thick U lock I can use if needed and usually have my panniers (saddle bags) that I throw all my locking stuff into so it's with me but it does add weight but then again I need the extra exercise. :)

But with all that said I've heard that any locks can be cut with a portable battery powered angle grinder which will make a lot of noise and hopefully if people are walking by would confront the person cutting it off but not always :(

I'd be happy to find a really good gps tracker that has a longer battery that can be put in my bike tube so I could easily find my bike if it were stolen but not sure if any good ones exist or not?


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